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[Music]

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explore the bazaars our or e-ticket ride

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into the world of the paranormal

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strap yourself in as we traverse the

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universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

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ghosts Lost Worlds

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cryptozoology waters as well as other

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dimensions it's time to take back the

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night now your electrifying hosts of

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exploring the bizarre Timothy Begley and

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team sports Wow hey Tim come on over

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here let me just wanted you to bottle I

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just got an eBay it's supposedly going

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to keep me safe from Slenderman Tim I

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actually think that's the you who

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bottled that that attracts Slenderman

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really I was wondering why I was bidding

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against myself oh no no I see Slenderman

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what what can protect me from him

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well you know there's only one thing

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that can protect you against Slenderman

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what's that

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why exploring the bazaars oh of course

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oh of course

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ah yes you're right I see him fading

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away right now and our guest starting to

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materialize right in front of us and

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speaking a guest how are you doing

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tonight

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Tim you out there in Jasper Indiana oh

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yes it's a it's a beautiful night here

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in Jasper Indiana the stars are shining

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the winds blowing the Owls are hooting

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so it's just it's just an excellent it's

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perfect night for exploring the bizarre

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you really have owls

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oh sure alright and and and coyotes in

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the distance - probably a couple of

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Bigfoot yeah you know not in this

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immediate area but but yeah you know

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here in Southwestern Indiana they they

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have been seen before but you know I

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don't think there's

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state where Bigfoot hasn't been seen you

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know we get a lot of reaction when we do

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shows on cryptozoology a dog man Bigfoot

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winged wonders of the world and so forth

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and so on but that's a little off-topic

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tonight so why don't you tell us what

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the topic is for this evening oh we've

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got it we've got a great topic tonight

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Tim with and we've got two fantastic

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guests you know we're going to be

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talking about haunted objects haunted

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act antiques and an Slenderman so with

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us tonight on exploring that bizarre we

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have Neil Packer now a Neil's

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fascination with a paranormal begin when

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he was a teenager and he saw his first

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apparition and ever since said he's been

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trying to figure out the truth about

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life after death well in 2013 Packer got

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together with some other like-minded

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Souls and started his own group for a

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researching and investigating you know

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that the paranormal but you know he

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actually discovered that his his passion

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actually was with the research with the

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haunted objects so he started collecting

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his own kind of like a weird and strange

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antiques to the point that I guess that

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they were overfloor overflowing his his

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car park so that's when he started his

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own haunted antiques paranormal research

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center at 11:00 a regent street in the

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heart of Hinkley and in England so now

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he says that with new items regularly

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being added to the collection and the

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fact that the building is haunted itself

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no two investigations within the center

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will be the same now joining us as well

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is our good friend Nick Redfern and it's

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been on with us a number of times so I

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really don't have to say a lot about him

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except that it's always a great pleasure

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to have Nick with us at

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we'll add that his most recent books

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include shapeshifters Morphy monsters

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and changing cryptids the Roswell UFO

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conspiracy exposing a shocking and

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sinister secret control MKULTRA

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chemtrails and the conspiracy to

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suppress the masses and the book we'll

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be talking about tonight the Slender Man

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mysteries an Internet urban legend comes

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to life so Nick Neil thank you very much

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for being with us on exploring the

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bizarre this is a going to be a doozy I

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love I love all these mysterious topics

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you know the house I lived in growing up

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I had a little bit of poltergeist

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activity I don't think we ever had any

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antiques that were we're haunted but

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we're gonna find out what we can both

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about Slenderman whether he really

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exists or not and what constitutes a

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haunted object now where were we

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speaking to you Anil are you're in the

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UK yeah I mean unless you say in the UK

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mm-hm and well let me see now how long

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have you been involved in the the

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paranormal kind of started out there at

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a rather young age did it and my

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interest starts when as a teenager but I

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really got involved in about 2013 so

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it's not many years really mm-hmm and

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how did that come about I had a friend

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who was a medium and he started we

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started a venue group together we went

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to hoards locations around the UK and we

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talked guess with us to investigate yeah

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you know I I did see what would you say

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that there's more interest in the occult

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and the spiritualism at all in the UK

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than there is here in the US or is it

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about parallel I think it's about

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parallel I think the u.s. is growing but

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I think England's got the more history

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so we got older buildings and we've got

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castles and that sort of things the laws

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being interest

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in the UK and of course the the

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spiritualist movement is still a very

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active there in the in England as

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opposed to here in the US where it's

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kind of dwindled outside of a few places

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where they have a hello like camp

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Chesterfield and a few other places

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where they do a congregate several times

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a year and have readings and so forth I

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know I get the psychic news and in fact

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I advertised in there out of the UK and

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that magazine has been going for I think

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something like 80 or 90 years now

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and it just turned into a big jumbo

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glossy magazine but okay well tell us

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about the you know like your earliest

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the paranormal experience that you can

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recall that start when I was a teenager

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I was out camping with a group of

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friends middle of the night and what

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early hours the morning I got up and

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went outside and looked over the fields

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towards the church obviously it was in a

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village but towards the church I saw a

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lady you know a long flowing white dress

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and obviously that was a spirit and

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that's scared the hell out of me so I

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went back in the tent never said

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anything to anybody

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whatever how could you how could you

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tell though that it was why did you

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assume that it was a spirit and just not

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somebody in a flowing white dress and

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because she wasn't walking it was just

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sort of floating down you could tell it

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wasn't anyone living and how far how far

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away from you was the apparition and how

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long did it appear for and when

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advantage did it just go poof or that it

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did walk through a wall or how how did

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the observation end it lasted a few

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minutes she didn't she didn't disappear

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our eyes just rounded back into the tent

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you that you disappeared

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yeah I quickly disappears I'll run back

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in the tent a few years later I found a

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book that was written about a village

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and it was well documented that other

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people had seen this this lady and she

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was actually jilted on a wedding day at

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okay so now do you think that this is

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who you the woman that you saw was this

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individual I think he was yeah and how

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did how did you I mean were you were you

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scared or frightened or it just said and

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this is really a weird well what was

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your attitude towards the I don't say I

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was scaring I was only a young teenager

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perhaps on press even 12 or 13 smile on

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so I was scared I never told anyone for

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years and years I didn't even tell my

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mum and dad yeah well the way that were

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there any other witnesses with you or

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did you do it were you the lone witness

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I was on my own and well okay so this

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this was your first encounter with the

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with the unknown how did it grow to

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where it is today in your collection of

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haunted artifacts and the the my

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interest was rekindled wasn't the normal

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TV show we got a famous TV show in UK

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and so I started watching that so then I

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realize you can actually go to haunted

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locations to see if you can find

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anything then I'll start watching the

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the the American shows I quickly didn't

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realize I didn't really want to spend

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all evening all night in a cold castle

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so I thought a society about haunted

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antiques so I contacted about 20 antique

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shops around my local area and only one

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replied fortunately so I started my

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investigations there yeah go ahead chip

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well I was going to say so you know when

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you contacted these antique shops I mean

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you know how did you

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go about it did you say hey you know you

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got any you know hauntings in your shop

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if you do can we come by and visit now I

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have this theory that everything we

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touched during our life we leave a trace

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of our body energy behind mm-hmm the

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theory was antiques were were loved

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items and that there would be how old

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emotions and energy from the previous

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owners so I thought that's the best

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place to go because the antiques were

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loved and so I've told him my theory and

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only seems vintage antique Center

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replied which I'm pleased about really I

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think I think we're all deaths we're all

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following a path and were guided and

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that was my chosen path okay so what the

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the one that did respond to you I mean

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what well what was their deal I mean you

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know what did what do they say to you

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and you know did they like oh yeah oh my

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gosh you know the ghosts are just

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crawling out of the woodwork here come

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over I went to see them told him what I

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wanted to do i tama wants to make a

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series of videos you know we ought to

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spend the evening in the antique centers

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to choose the different item and see if

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we can draw any spirits forward through

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it and it it did work I've since gone

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away from the the recorded videos I only

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do live feeds now on Facebook and

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they're proven really really popular so

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now the the the first antique shop that

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you went to I mean did did they have

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like some specific items that they said

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yeah you know we've got we got a creepy

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feeling about these things or did they

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decide to come in and go at it they just

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let me go and come in hi i took a medium

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with me he was picking up different

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spirits I'm fascinated by World War

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items I think they hold lots of emotions

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and lots of energy so war items like

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helmets and one of the items I got is a

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baby gas mask which is a hideous looking

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thing and that's that's full of emotions

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we can get the energy to communicate

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with this item I stepped on your

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question previous okay so I thought I

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apologize for that

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but I'm just I'm fascinated by this idea

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00:14:28,270 --> 00:14:22,990
that you know you can have an object

271
00:14:32,020 --> 00:14:28,280
that can I don't know retain energy or

272
00:14:34,030 --> 00:14:32,030
you know act almost like a tape recorder

273
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:34,040
you know that's been a popular theory

274
00:14:40,570 --> 00:14:37,370
for you know decades that a haunted

275
00:14:45,220 --> 00:14:40,580
house could possibly be nothing more

276
00:14:47,770 --> 00:14:45,230
than a replaying of a tragic or an

277
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:47,780
emotional state that happened at one

278
00:14:55,450 --> 00:14:52,880
time I mean do you do you think that

279
00:14:57,490 --> 00:14:55,460
this is part of it when you're dealing

280
00:15:00,370 --> 00:14:57,500
with these kinds of objects or do you

281
00:15:03,820 --> 00:15:00,380
think that there could actually be an

282
00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:03,830
intelligence involved as well I think I

283
00:15:10,390 --> 00:15:06,590
think it's both I think some items do

284
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:10,400
it's like a record and I said but the

285
00:15:15,550 --> 00:15:14,090
the energy I think if you if you tap it

286
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:15,560
if you have the right people around you

287
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:17,690
you can tap into the energy and I'm not

288
00:15:23,590 --> 00:15:20,810
saying all my items actually haunted as

289
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:23,600
such I think a haunted eyes Trinity is

290
00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:25,430
the spirits the actual spirits with it

291
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:31,510
all the time but else we just would you

292
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:34,130
they say that they're these objects that

293
00:15:42,910 --> 00:15:37,490
have a negative connotation or are some

294
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:42,920
of them curse they media a none of my

295
00:15:47,770 --> 00:15:45,010
objects are actually negative all

296
00:15:51,220 --> 00:15:47,780
they're all positive spirits apart from

297
00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:51,230
one which is a voodoo doll mm-hm

298
00:15:58,750 --> 00:15:54,670
that has got it it's not really really

299
00:16:02,170 --> 00:15:58,760
bad it's just and quite a mischievous

300
00:16:06,970 --> 00:16:02,180
nasty entity attached to it so we do

301
00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:06,980
contain that so then that spirits not

302
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:09,980
wandering around the building how do you

303
00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:12,410
how do you research the background of an

304
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:14,200
object

305
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:17,330
as well so we we search through the

306
00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:18,890
internet once we get in aren't we all

307
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:21,350
drawn to the ISIS as we gaze like I said

308
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:23,090
we believe we've got spirit guys and

309
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,730
they're guiding us so I can I can go to

310
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:27,920
a shop and something avoiding my head

311
00:16:31,390 --> 00:16:29,810
says go to that corner and there's an

312
00:16:37,150 --> 00:16:31,400
item that's that's interested

313
00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:37,160
interesting to me but research is we do

314
00:16:43,450 --> 00:16:39,950
an item of the week live feed on

315
00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:43,460
Facebook and so we get lots and lots of

316
00:16:49,090 --> 00:16:47,120
comments from people who sense things

317
00:16:51,190 --> 00:16:49,100
around the items so they can give us

318
00:16:55,090 --> 00:16:51,200
names and places and then we can

319
00:16:59,020 --> 00:16:55,100
research what they are telling us so

320
00:17:04,660 --> 00:16:59,030
would you say that you have media mystic

321
00:17:08,020 --> 00:17:04,670
powers yourself me personally no I can

322
00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:08,030
sense when spirit around me I go oh all

323
00:17:13,060 --> 00:17:11,270
tingly around my neck and but I've got a

324
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:13,070
good team with me and they've they've

325
00:17:19,780 --> 00:17:17,089
all developed their own ways of sensing

326
00:17:22,180 --> 00:17:19,790
spirit around us that's how we work we

327
00:17:25,630 --> 00:17:22,190
all work as a team with different

328
00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:25,640
attributes how many people in your in

329
00:17:34,890 --> 00:17:31,990
your team the seven of us and are they

330
00:17:38,170 --> 00:17:34,900
men and women or they all of the same

331
00:17:41,620 --> 00:17:38,180
age group or or how would what are the

332
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:41,630
what is the position of the group yeah

333
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:44,090
there's one more man besides me the rest

334
00:17:51,670 --> 00:17:49,910
of women we range in ages and I'm the

335
00:17:56,470 --> 00:17:51,680
oldest just so they called me granddad

336
00:17:58,180 --> 00:17:56,480
actually so we we range well they call

337
00:18:05,860 --> 00:17:58,190
me they call me worse than that so don't

338
00:18:10,090 --> 00:18:05,870
feel I think the youngest is in the

339
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:10,100
early thirties and I'm 58 so it's it's

340
00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:15,530
that age range mm-hmm and we just I mean

341
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:18,470
like before you obtain an object you you

342
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:20,330
go out and you you purchase them or

343
00:18:27,980 --> 00:18:24,410
they're given to you or mostly items of

344
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:27,990
we purchased through antique centers or

345
00:18:35,230 --> 00:18:31,980
or car boot sales and but we are now

346
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:35,240
actually getting items sent to us people

347
00:18:40,340 --> 00:18:38,730
even message mayor says they've got an

348
00:18:42,770 --> 00:18:40,350
item would I be interested in and

349
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,780
depends what it is I say yeah so we

350
00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:45,200
that's how the collection is building up

351
00:18:51,020 --> 00:18:48,960
well now okay let's say you you know

352
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:51,030
about an object yeah and somebody tells

353
00:18:55,490 --> 00:18:53,880
you that they have a an object that is

354
00:18:58,010 --> 00:18:55,500
believed to be haunted

355
00:19:02,930 --> 00:18:58,020
would you take someone with you who

356
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:02,940
might be a psychic in the group there so

357
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:04,500
that they can ascertain whether that's

358
00:19:07,790 --> 00:19:05,450
true or not

359
00:19:10,010 --> 00:19:07,800
yeah I'd say one of the girls were

360
00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:10,020
sensed really sensitive to it and if she

361
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:13,140
says yes something something of interest

362
00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:15,090
I'm not saying it's gonna be haunted but

363
00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:17,910
if he's got an interesting feel to or an

364
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:20,580
interesting look about it and the voices

365
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:23,280
in in their head sight yeah that's

366
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:24,840
that's interesting we can work with that

367
00:19:30,410 --> 00:19:27,890
that's that's how we well what what what

368
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:30,420
okay well let's see what am I trying to

369
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,570
say what are the age of the of the

370
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:35,280
objects I mean are some of them hundreds

371
00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:37,730
of years old are some of them more a

372
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:42,960
recent and vintage and the oldest items

373
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:45,840
we got is from the English Civil Wars

374
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:48,090
that was sixteen hundreds that's the

375
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:54,090
oldest that's a musket shot the the most

376
00:20:02,990 --> 00:19:57,090
modern probably would it be from the

377
00:20:09,730 --> 00:20:03,000
sixties and what is that what from the

378
00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:09,740
six days yeah let me think it's it's I

379
00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:11,940
can't think off the top of my head I was

380
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:12,950
right

381
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:19,050
put you on the spot there yeah oh okay

382
00:20:23,030 --> 00:20:20,460
well how many how many items do you

383
00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:23,040
think you have total so far and I think

384
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:27,990
of well over fifty items now mmm nicely

385
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:30,330
yeah are they all on display I mean you

386
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:31,679
know somebody comes into your shop I

387
00:20:34,910 --> 00:20:33,120
mean here can they can they seen them

388
00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:34,920
all or do you have to have some you know

389
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:36,870
some and storage every narrowing now

390
00:20:41,909 --> 00:20:39,010
everything is on display

391
00:20:44,130 --> 00:20:41,919
which is different to most places I

392
00:20:46,530 --> 00:20:44,140
think like museums everything's behind

393
00:20:48,990 --> 00:20:46,540
glass so no one can touch them the way i

394
00:20:50,669 --> 00:20:49,000
wanted my sense to run it is you know

395
00:20:52,919 --> 00:20:50,679
we've got a wheelchair from the the

396
00:20:54,299 --> 00:20:52,929
second world war hospital if people want

397
00:20:56,310 --> 00:20:54,309
to sit in the wheelchair they're allowed

398
00:20:58,590 --> 00:20:56,320
to do so and so they can tell us what

399
00:21:01,500 --> 00:20:58,600
they're feeling or what a sensible

400
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:01,510
choice well that's that's a great idea

401
00:21:06,270 --> 00:21:03,570
because then you actually have

402
00:21:09,659 --> 00:21:06,280
participation that in it and and you

403
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:09,669
okay so let's say one visitorial it

404
00:21:14,909 --> 00:21:12,010
comes and sits in the wheelchair and and

405
00:21:18,030 --> 00:21:14,919
goes along and they pick up some

406
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:18,040
vibration and a particular object that

407
00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:20,970
you have have you ever had like a

408
00:21:25,799 --> 00:21:23,140
confirmation somebody else to come along

409
00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:25,809
later on and and say almost the same

410
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:28,630
thing or kind of reinforced with the the

411
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:31,500
initial individual had told you yeah

412
00:21:37,950 --> 00:21:35,590
quite a few times and when we encourage

413
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:37,960
people to rise we've got a day book we

414
00:21:42,299 --> 00:21:39,850
call it and we encourage people to write

415
00:21:45,270 --> 00:21:42,309
in that what they what they feel from

416
00:21:47,940 --> 00:21:45,280
different items and then we week just

417
00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:47,950
compare and we've got quite a few the

418
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,190
same comments coming through what that's

419
00:21:58,470 --> 00:21:53,919
really interesting what would you say is

420
00:22:00,090 --> 00:21:58,480
your most haunted item i think that

421
00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:00,100
would be the the wheelchair from the

422
00:22:05,250 --> 00:22:02,520
rehabilitation hospital during the war

423
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:05,260
oh so that thing that's what that's what

424
00:22:10,409 --> 00:22:09,130
it - yeah and there's there's lots of

425
00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:10,419
energy around that because as you

426
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:12,549
imagine there being lots of different

427
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:14,799
soldiers sitting in there some at that

428
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:18,370
limbs amputated some had mental issues

429
00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:20,559
after the war so there's lots and lots

430
00:22:26,490 --> 00:22:22,270
of energy around that and different

431
00:22:28,650 --> 00:22:26,500
people pick up on different energies so

432
00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:28,660
that's just what do you say would you

433
00:22:38,130 --> 00:22:32,049
say that a good number of the artifacts

434
00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:38,140
that you have are war related I do have

435
00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:40,750
a little section of war items I've got

436
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:44,710
quite a few helmets so I think war is

437
00:22:52,740 --> 00:22:49,690
very emotion driven so they they do hold

438
00:22:57,150 --> 00:22:52,750
on to a lots of energy have

439
00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:57,160
any spirits ever appeared in the shop we

440
00:23:02,790 --> 00:22:58,810
haven't actually seen it we put some on

441
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:02,800
the SLS camera and turns into a stickman

442
00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:05,890
we've seen quite a few of them and then

443
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:08,980
you see you've seen what kind of man the

444
00:23:16,260 --> 00:23:14,290
SLS camera turn maps humans we think it

445
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:16,270
also maps spirits so if there's no

446
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:18,850
humans standing in front of the camera

447
00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:23,110
and you see it like a stick man and we

448
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:25,300
think that spirit well we'll have to

449
00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:27,490
find out after the break whether they're

450
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:32,200
related to Slender Man could be a it

451
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:36,090
could be a relative there but

452
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:39,850
fascinating fascinating stuff and we're

453
00:23:43,170 --> 00:23:41,650
coming out on our break and we'll be

454
00:23:46,140 --> 00:23:43,180
back in just a few minutes and stay

455
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:46,150
tuned for some more exciting paranormal

456
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:48,640
adventure now back to exploring the

457
00:23:53,580 --> 00:23:51,010
bizarre with two of the most

458
00:23:57,330 --> 00:23:53,590
electrifying researchers in the Paranoid

459
00:24:00,360 --> 00:23:57,340
your hosts Timothy beckylyn and Tim

460
00:24:05,770 --> 00:24:03,010
all right welcome back to exploring the

461
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:05,780
bazaar I'm Tim Schwartz and tonight we

462
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:09,440
are talking about haunted or energetic

463
00:24:15,850 --> 00:24:12,290
objects and antiques and the Slender Man

464
00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:15,860
so we're gonna bring Nick Redfern into

465
00:24:21,310 --> 00:24:18,670
the conversation now Tim and Nick has a

466
00:24:24,850 --> 00:24:21,320
new book out called the Slender Man

467
00:24:28,299 --> 00:24:24,860
mysteries an Internet urban legend comes

468
00:24:31,690 --> 00:24:28,309
to life and I have to say Nick excellent

469
00:24:34,780 --> 00:24:31,700
book Ben I've been reading it the cash

470
00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:34,790
yeah past week or so and just really

471
00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:37,820
enjoy it a lot and you know the the

472
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:40,070
subject of the book really fits in well

473
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:42,650
I think with tonight's program because

474
00:24:49,810 --> 00:24:45,610
you know we're talking about Neal and

475
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:49,820
you know his his shop that has objects

476
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:53,440
that you know could have you know

477
00:25:00,419 --> 00:24:57,650
absorbed vibrations or developed even a

478
00:25:03,850 --> 00:25:00,429
consciousness of her own and and that's

479
00:25:07,270 --> 00:25:03,860
somewhat of your your thesis about a

480
00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:07,280
Slenderman so um for I suppose our

481
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:10,070
listeners out there who have been living

482
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:13,730
in a cave for the past decade or so why

483
00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:15,770
don't you tell us a little bit about the

484
00:25:22,780 --> 00:25:20,150
Slenderman yeah sure well the phenomenon

485
00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:22,790
if you like sort of began in the summer

486
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,030
of 2009 and what happened was that

487
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:28,640
there's a website called something awful

488
00:25:33,610 --> 00:25:31,370
and they had this kind of contest to see

489
00:25:36,070 --> 00:25:33,620
who could come up with the creepiest

490
00:25:39,610 --> 00:25:36,080
character if you like for the Internet

491
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:39,620
era and a lot of people submitted sorts

492
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:43,610
Photoshop pictures you know to create a

493
00:25:48,970 --> 00:25:46,610
sort of a spooky supernatural picture

494
00:25:53,049 --> 00:25:48,980
and one of the people who did this was a

495
00:25:57,100 --> 00:25:53,059
guy named Eric Knudsen and his picture

496
00:25:59,320 --> 00:25:57,110
of this sort of 7 to 9 foot tall skinny

497
00:26:03,070 --> 00:25:59,330
figure in a black suit a white shirt

498
00:26:05,470 --> 00:26:03,080
skinny black tie with these octopus like

499
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:05,480
tentacles coming out of its back and a

500
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:08,090
face which lacked eyes nose mouth and

501
00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:10,010
ears it was just like a you know a

502
00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:11,880
faceless face

503
00:26:18,020 --> 00:26:16,230
and he was dubbed the Slenderman and it

504
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:18,030
was sort of seen as this sort of creepy

505
00:26:21,710 --> 00:26:19,980
type of character that would lurk deep

506
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:21,720
in the woods and very dangerous

507
00:26:27,289 --> 00:26:24,690
character as well and I should suggest

508
00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:27,299
he wasn't created as like a hoax he was

509
00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:29,220
like a genuine contest to see who could

510
00:26:34,270 --> 00:26:31,110
come up with something you know the

511
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:34,280
worst thing for the internet service be

512
00:26:39,860 --> 00:26:37,410
in no time at all it became pretty much

513
00:26:44,750 --> 00:26:39,870
like a phenomenon where blogs were set

514
00:26:47,090 --> 00:26:44,760
up chat rooms forums a show was actually

515
00:26:50,060 --> 00:26:47,100
created an online show called Marble

516
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:50,070
Hornets kind of like a found-footage

517
00:26:55,250 --> 00:26:53,610
type fictional thing reach episode was

518
00:26:58,970 --> 00:26:55,260
about twenty thirty minutes and you know

519
00:27:01,909 --> 00:26:58,980
achieved a gigantic audience and so in

520
00:27:04,970 --> 00:27:01,919
other words in very quick time you had

521
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:04,980
this Slenderman image take off to where

522
00:27:09,710 --> 00:27:06,690
you had literally thousands kids

523
00:27:11,330 --> 00:27:09,720
teenagers adults really digging into

524
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:11,340
this and those people started to write

525
00:27:16,130 --> 00:27:13,200
their own stories about the Slender Man

526
00:27:18,770 --> 00:27:16,140
and create their own pictures and give

527
00:27:21,740 --> 00:27:18,780
him a backstory you know and background

528
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:21,750
that kind of thing and it went on like

529
00:27:26,870 --> 00:27:24,720
that for for quite a few months now I

530
00:27:29,390 --> 00:27:26,880
was aware of the whole phenomenon when

531
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:29,400
it began but I wasn't overly interested

532
00:27:35,180 --> 00:27:33,090
in you know just an Internet contest to

533
00:27:37,070 --> 00:27:35,190
create a weird image you know it just

534
00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:37,080
wasn't something that really caught my

535
00:27:43,010 --> 00:27:37,740
attention

536
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:43,020
roundabouts well a number of months

537
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:45,570
afterwards web creation when people

538
00:27:51,919 --> 00:27:47,970
started to claim that they had seen the

539
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:51,929
Slender Man in the real world in woods

540
00:27:58,399 --> 00:27:54,809
and forest just like in the creation by

541
00:28:00,799 --> 00:27:58,409
Erik Knudsen but also in their bedrooms

542
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:00,809
that people reported sleep paralysis

543
00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:03,840
this phenomenon where you know you wake

544
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:05,340
up in the middle of the night 2:00 a.m.

545
00:28:10,190 --> 00:28:06,210
3:00 a.m.

546
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:10,200
unable to move and you see this creepy

547
00:28:14,750 --> 00:28:11,970
character like the Slender Man looming

548
00:28:17,630 --> 00:28:14,760
over you and now of course you know

549
00:28:20,210 --> 00:28:17,640
there are a couple of different theories

550
00:28:22,340 --> 00:28:20,220
for sleep paralysis that it's you know

551
00:28:23,980 --> 00:28:22,350
due to the complexities of the mind and

552
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:23,990
lack of sleep and stress

553
00:28:27,580 --> 00:28:25,490
and then you have the you know the

554
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:27,590
theory that it's some sort of literal

555
00:28:32,020 --> 00:28:30,080
supernaturally made that that invades

556
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:32,030
the bedroom late at night and prevents

557
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:35,600
you from from moving and the more that I

558
00:28:41,860 --> 00:28:38,330
started to look into these claims of

559
00:28:44,170 --> 00:28:41,870
real reports it became clear to me from

560
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:44,180
my own belief system that what had

561
00:28:50,890 --> 00:28:47,930
happened was that inadvertently and not

562
00:28:53,890 --> 00:28:50,900
deliberately but we've literally as he

563
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:53,900
has you know become tens and tens of

564
00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:56,570
thousands of people obsessing and

565
00:29:00,820 --> 00:28:58,730
thinking about the Slender Man talking

566
00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:00,830
about it research and sharing

567
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:03,110
information with other people online etc

568
00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:06,080
etc what happened as I see it at least

569
00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:09,590
is that the intense belief almost you

570
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:11,030
know that the lines became blurry

571
00:29:16,150 --> 00:29:13,730
between fiction and fact and I think

572
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:16,160
what happened is that when there was

573
00:29:23,049 --> 00:29:19,610
this huge obsession on the part of tens

574
00:29:25,530 --> 00:29:23,059
of thousands of kids teenagers etc I

575
00:29:28,330 --> 00:29:25,540
think what happened is that

576
00:29:31,060 --> 00:29:28,340
inadvertently what is known as a Tulpa

577
00:29:33,460 --> 00:29:31,070
in tibetan terms or a thought form was

578
00:29:38,830 --> 00:29:33,470
created in other words if enough people

579
00:29:40,990 --> 00:29:38,840
focus on something deeply intensely they

580
00:29:44,169 --> 00:29:41,000
dream about it they're fixating on it

581
00:29:46,980 --> 00:29:44,179
that the collective mindset of so many

582
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:46,990
people can create a real-world

583
00:29:52,660 --> 00:29:49,760
supernatural version of a fictional

584
00:29:54,610 --> 00:29:52,670
entity in other words you know the

585
00:29:57,610 --> 00:29:54,620
imagine what something strides out of

586
00:29:59,740 --> 00:29:57,620
the imagination into the real world but

587
00:30:02,890 --> 00:29:59,750
in some sort of like a in a supernatural

588
00:30:05,010 --> 00:30:02,900
form now of course a lot of people might

589
00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:05,020
say well it's just people whose

590
00:30:10,510 --> 00:30:08,390
imaginations have just sort of gone too

591
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:10,520
far and they and they lost the plot so

592
00:30:16,270 --> 00:30:13,850
to speak and I think you know I mean

593
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:16,280
there are there's a this room for

594
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:17,690
several different books to be written on

595
00:30:21,610 --> 00:30:19,390
the Slender Man you know I'm sure a

596
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:21,620
psychiatrist could write a really good

597
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:24,110
book from the perspective of it being

598
00:30:29,470 --> 00:30:26,450
you know something a phenomenon borne

599
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:29,480
out of the mind and again with that

600
00:30:36,190 --> 00:30:32,720
angle of the blurring of the lines but

601
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:36,200
my book I wrote it specifically from the

602
00:30:40,049 --> 00:30:37,530
perspective of my

603
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:40,059
conclusions of theories and you know my

604
00:30:47,130 --> 00:30:44,320
view is that the the Slenderman has come

605
00:30:49,919 --> 00:30:47,140
to life just in some strange agree as a

606
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:49,929
thought form so in other words the book

607
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:51,850
is actually not it's not an unbiased

608
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:55,480
book it's a bias it's biased towards the

609
00:31:00,000 --> 00:30:57,490
theory that I come to the conclusion

610
00:31:01,710 --> 00:31:00,010
that's why people get that from the

611
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:01,720
subtitle of the book which is an

612
00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:04,000
Internet urban legend comes to life you

613
00:31:08,490 --> 00:31:05,980
know I didn't want people to think this

614
00:31:10,850 --> 00:31:08,500
was you know anything other than what it

615
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:10,860
really is a study of that particular

616
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:13,510
theory and the whole issue of thought

617
00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:16,990
forms sort of fascinate me and have for

618
00:31:22,110 --> 00:31:19,230
a long time the idea that you know the

619
00:31:22,620 --> 00:31:22,120
sort of the psychic ability of the human

620
00:31:25,020 --> 00:31:22,630
mind

621
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:25,030
multiply that by tens of thousands of

622
00:31:29,909 --> 00:31:27,850
people all thinking of one issue and

623
00:31:31,860 --> 00:31:29,919
then suddenly people start to see to

624
00:31:33,870 --> 00:31:31,870
never mean of their different theories

625
00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:33,880
as to what the toll per actually is

626
00:31:38,010 --> 00:31:35,919
whether you know you sort of look at the

627
00:31:40,530 --> 00:31:38,020
original Tibetan stories and how it all

628
00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:40,540
also become modified in more recent

629
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:45,340
years and you have the inaudible of some

630
00:31:51,150 --> 00:31:48,010
people believe that this Tulpas thought

631
00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:51,160
forms can only really exist if we

632
00:31:55,049 --> 00:31:53,200
continue to believe in them you know if

633
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:55,059
we stop believing and they start to

634
00:32:00,180 --> 00:31:57,850
fragment and dissolve other people take

635
00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:00,190
the view that they kind of survive on

636
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:03,900
and thrive on human energy if you like

637
00:32:14,820 --> 00:32:08,890
what one out on it what was the Slender

638
00:32:17,010 --> 00:32:14,830
Man was he created as a sinister being

639
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:17,020
because certainly there's been a lot of

640
00:32:25,980 --> 00:32:23,290
a negative let me just say a negativity

641
00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:25,990
associated with this figure and of

642
00:32:32,970 --> 00:32:29,590
course the the very well-known incident

643
00:32:35,820 --> 00:32:32,980
where the two teenage girls took their

644
00:32:39,180 --> 00:32:35,830
friend into the woods and stabbed her

645
00:32:43,049 --> 00:32:39,190
numerous times because they were trying

646
00:32:45,450 --> 00:32:43,059
to be get under the good graces of

647
00:32:46,890 --> 00:32:45,460
Slenderman I mean was it created as a

648
00:32:50,909 --> 00:32:46,900
negative figure or is that just

649
00:32:51,630 --> 00:32:50,919
something that came about on its own no

650
00:32:53,550 --> 00:32:51,640
well I mean

651
00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:53,560
what happened was Eric Knudsen when he

652
00:32:59,630 --> 00:32:56,320
created the Slenderman for this contest

653
00:33:03,960 --> 00:32:59,640
by his own admission he had a number of

654
00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:03,970
inspirations for the Slender Man for

655
00:33:10,740 --> 00:33:06,910
example there was the he was a big fan

656
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:10,750
of the writings of HP Lovecraft so

657
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:14,530
almost certainly I won then yes huh yeah

658
00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:17,110
in one sense that might explain you know

659
00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:18,940
that the tentacles the octopus like

660
00:33:22,380 --> 00:33:20,800
tentacles coming out of its back you

661
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:22,390
know with the Lovecraft sort of

662
00:33:27,870 --> 00:33:25,290
obsessions we you know strange rubbery

663
00:33:32,690 --> 00:33:27,880
type creatures you know living under the

664
00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:32,700
oceans that kind of thing and he also

665
00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:35,950
loved craft talked about seeing in his

666
00:33:40,650 --> 00:33:38,020
dream states at night these creatures

667
00:33:43,140 --> 00:33:40,660
that he called night-gaunts which were

668
00:33:45,450 --> 00:33:43,150
faceless monsters basically so you know

669
00:33:47,670 --> 00:33:45,460
in the Slender Man was faceless but also

670
00:33:49,470 --> 00:33:47,680
and I'm sure you remember this - I

671
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:49,480
remember the story - but you'll know of

672
00:33:54,990 --> 00:33:52,570
it you know back in the 1940s in the

673
00:33:56,670 --> 00:33:55,000
town of Mattoon in Illinois there was

674
00:34:01,620 --> 00:33:56,680
this weird story of what was known as

675
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:01,630
the mad gasser material oh yeah okay

676
00:34:07,410 --> 00:34:04,720
well for they the mad gasser Mattoon was

677
00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:07,420
kind of like an early proto man in black

678
00:34:13,830 --> 00:34:10,750
and of course the slender man is dressed

679
00:34:15,450 --> 00:34:13,840
in a black suit now Eric nuts and when

680
00:34:18,510 --> 00:34:15,460
he you know created these photoshopped

681
00:34:20,070 --> 00:34:18,520
images he actually sort of it wasn't

682
00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:20,080
just pictures of the Slender Man it was

683
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:22,390
pictures of the Slender Man lurking in

684
00:34:26,130 --> 00:34:23,800
the background where there were groups

685
00:34:28,649 --> 00:34:26,140
of kids in the forefront of the pictures

686
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:28,659
so the implication was that the Slender

687
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:31,450
Man you know was a sinister disturbing

688
00:34:37,169 --> 00:34:35,530
threat to kids so you know everything

689
00:34:38,970 --> 00:34:37,179
about the Slender Man to start with

690
00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:38,980
regardless of whether or not you believe

691
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:40,990
is just a fictional entity or you think

692
00:34:45,389 --> 00:34:42,850
it may now have gone further than that

693
00:34:48,750 --> 00:34:45,399
there's no doubt that you know that just

694
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:48,760
the imagery alone kind of you know core

695
00:34:52,950 --> 00:34:50,649
people's attention and not necessarily

696
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:52,960
for a good reason mainly because it was

697
00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:55,510
just so kind of just so creepy and

698
00:35:00,750 --> 00:34:58,570
disturbing you know the image of like a

699
00:35:02,460 --> 00:35:00,760
predatory figure in the woods staring at

700
00:35:05,220 --> 00:35:02,470
kids you know it doesn't conjure up

701
00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:05,230
anything positive at all

702
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:09,630
it just totally negative Union when all

703
00:35:21,930 --> 00:35:16,530
there has been other historical

704
00:35:22,650 --> 00:35:21,940
supernatural creatures that I mean you

705
00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:22,660
know they didn't have the name

706
00:35:28,770 --> 00:35:26,320
Slenderman but you know I remember

707
00:35:32,970 --> 00:35:28,780
seeing you know like a Victorian there

708
00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:32,980
are drawings of of creatures that you

709
00:35:38,250 --> 00:35:35,200
know bear a striking resemblance whose

710
00:35:41,010 --> 00:35:38,260
fundamental the the almost inset like

711
00:35:42,870 --> 00:35:41,020
arms and legs but you know whether being

712
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:42,880
in or suit-and-tie they're dressing more

713
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:45,850
you know a period costumes so I mean you

714
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:47,530
know we're talking about something

715
00:35:55,170 --> 00:35:52,240
though that has really been in I guess

716
00:35:58,260 --> 00:35:55,180
the human consciousness form for a long

717
00:36:00,540 --> 00:35:58,270
time that's actually a good question

718
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:00,550
good good point because I do mention

719
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,250
that in the book although Eric notes and

720
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:05,440
created the Slender Man image in the

721
00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:10,410
summer of 2009 in June 2009 you can find

722
00:36:14,670 --> 00:36:13,030
parallels with similar things in the

723
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:14,680
past and you know I talked about this in

724
00:36:20,070 --> 00:36:16,300
the book one of the people I interviewed

725
00:36:21,780 --> 00:36:20,080
a guy named Robin Swope who also wrote a

726
00:36:24,630 --> 00:36:21,790
book on the Slender Man a few years ago

727
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:24,640
I ain't be robbing and he feels that

728
00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:29,530
although Eric Knudsen undeniably created

729
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:31,830
the Slender Man in its current form

730
00:36:37,890 --> 00:36:35,530
Robin suspects that's what Knudsen

731
00:36:41,310 --> 00:36:37,900
actually did subconsciously input and

732
00:36:43,470 --> 00:36:41,320
unknowingly conjured up an ancient

733
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:43,480
archetype of something that has been

734
00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:46,210
around for a long long time and I mean I

735
00:36:50,849 --> 00:36:48,550
talk in the book about for example you

736
00:36:53,490 --> 00:36:50,859
know that the old kid story of the Pied

737
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:53,500
Piper of Hamelin which is this sort of

738
00:36:59,280 --> 00:36:57,130
tall skinny figure who strides into town

739
00:37:01,620 --> 00:36:59,290
in the German town of Hamlin and

740
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:01,630
promises to get rid of all the rats in

741
00:37:06,810 --> 00:37:04,450
town and the mayor doesn't honor is part

742
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:06,820
of the bargain to you know pay the piper

743
00:37:13,650 --> 00:37:10,810
and so this tall creepy character with

744
00:37:15,690 --> 00:37:13,660
this supernatural pipe leads all the

745
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:15,700
kids into the woods and into the

746
00:37:18,779 --> 00:37:17,530
mountains and they disappear into like a

747
00:37:21,289 --> 00:37:18,789
kind of portal

748
00:37:22,890 --> 00:37:21,299
you know it's not a particular here and

749
00:37:25,019 --> 00:37:22,900
you know it's not a particularly

750
00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:25,029
entertaining story for kids really if

751
00:37:28,650 --> 00:37:26,380
you think about well you could almost

752
00:37:33,089 --> 00:37:28,660
say the same that same then about the

753
00:37:36,779 --> 00:37:33,099
Hansel and Gretel with the air the the

754
00:37:40,140 --> 00:37:36,789
Hagin figure beckoning the the children

755
00:37:42,209 --> 00:37:40,150
into the woods once again yeah and a lot

756
00:37:44,189 --> 00:37:42,219
of these old you know just as an aside a

757
00:37:46,589 --> 00:37:44,199
lot of those old fairy tales and folk

758
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:46,599
tales are quite disturbing you know when

759
00:37:52,829 --> 00:37:50,650
you actually dissect them bit by bit but

760
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:52,839
there are the stories as well I mean one

761
00:37:59,640 --> 00:37:56,410
of the people who I spoke with was a guy

762
00:38:02,789 --> 00:37:59,650
named Mike Johnson and Mike Johnson I

763
00:38:06,359 --> 00:38:02,799
grew up in central England about five

764
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:06,369
miles from an old city called Litchfield

765
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:11,049
and one of these situations where again

766
00:38:16,919 --> 00:38:14,049
there was like a an old or pre

767
00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:16,929
Slenderman type story no not super old

768
00:38:22,859 --> 00:38:19,209
but I interviewed this guy Mike Johnson

769
00:38:25,199 --> 00:38:22,869
and he had an encounter in 2001 with a

770
00:38:26,789 --> 00:38:25,209
creature that sound on an area of

771
00:38:30,089 --> 00:38:26,799
woodland in central England called the

772
00:38:31,439 --> 00:38:30,099
Cannock Chase which was about against it

773
00:38:33,659 --> 00:38:31,449
about five or six miles from where I

774
00:38:36,569 --> 00:38:33,669
grew up from and a lot of supernatural

775
00:38:37,620 --> 00:38:36,579
activity there and might tell me how in

776
00:38:40,949 --> 00:38:37,630
2001

777
00:38:43,739 --> 00:38:40,959
he'd seen this sort of tall 8 9 foot

778
00:38:46,380 --> 00:38:43,749
tall thing with a face that you could

779
00:38:49,919 --> 00:38:46,390
not distinguish properly have these long

780
00:38:53,429 --> 00:38:49,929
arms down to its knees and oddly it was

781
00:38:56,130 --> 00:38:53,439
standing behind a couple of other people

782
00:38:58,019 --> 00:38:56,140
on the counter chase woods and they

783
00:39:00,029 --> 00:38:58,029
couldn't see it well it was clear they

784
00:39:04,229 --> 00:39:00,039
couldn't see it because they weren't

785
00:39:06,359 --> 00:39:04,239
reacting to it and he felt disoriented

786
00:39:08,669 --> 00:39:06,369
he couldn't get his bearings he couldn't

787
00:39:11,069 --> 00:39:08,679
figure out which was north and south etc

788
00:39:13,049 --> 00:39:11,079
and then suddenly everything returned to

789
00:39:16,019 --> 00:39:13,059
normal and the crater was gone but

790
00:39:20,549 --> 00:39:16,029
what's what's important is that yes it

791
00:39:26,189 --> 00:39:20,559
occurred in 2001 but Mike gave me the

792
00:39:28,799 --> 00:39:26,199
story like 5 years before if the Slender

793
00:39:31,709 --> 00:39:28,809
Man was even created so you can find

794
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:31,719
these earlier archetypes of the Slender

795
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:32,290
Man

796
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:35,290
almost identical to Eric Knudsen version

797
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:38,650
but long before you know he actually

798
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:41,350
created it so again I think we're

799
00:39:45,990 --> 00:39:42,810
dealing with several things the

800
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:46,000
thought-form version but also he said

801
00:39:52,290 --> 00:39:48,490
you know something deeply in the in the

802
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:52,300
subconscious you know that may all be

803
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:54,930
you know be sort of primed for certain

804
00:40:00,360 --> 00:39:57,850
types of creatures or entities to be

805
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:00,370
created because you know it is deep in

806
00:40:07,140 --> 00:40:02,890
our subconscious well you know I

807
00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:07,150
it kind of brings me to thinking about

808
00:40:14,700 --> 00:40:11,260
the shadow people which isn't the

809
00:40:18,210 --> 00:40:14,710
Slenderman but it's kind of a shadowy

810
00:40:22,830 --> 00:40:18,220
form that has been seen now by many many

811
00:40:24,810 --> 00:40:22,840
people and I mean a lot of people have

812
00:40:29,490 --> 00:40:24,820
researched this and written on it and

813
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:29,500
and take it rather seriously would there

814
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:33,040
seem to be a whole group then of some of

815
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:37,650
these top rows or something working

816
00:40:41,850 --> 00:40:40,240
independently or perhaps together from

817
00:40:43,230 --> 00:40:41,860
time to time that's a that's a

818
00:40:45,150 --> 00:40:43,240
frightening actually

819
00:40:48,050 --> 00:40:45,160
well well this is where it kind of gets

820
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:48,060
a little bit confusing now of course if

821
00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:50,530
you know if you've got say I don't know

822
00:40:56,010 --> 00:40:53,220
a hundred thousand kids teenagers

823
00:40:57,900 --> 00:40:56,020
thinking about this because that's

824
00:41:01,440 --> 00:40:57,910
fixate you know is obsessing about it

825
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:01,450
and some sort of thought form is created

826
00:41:08,340 --> 00:41:04,810
the big question is all the payflow

827
00:41:10,890 --> 00:41:08,350
seeds when it becomes a thought form are

828
00:41:14,820 --> 00:41:10,900
they all seeing the same one or is it

829
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:14,830
their very own independence Slenderman

830
00:41:18,570 --> 00:41:16,810
and somebody else is their version of it

831
00:41:20,540 --> 00:41:18,580
you know but could if you're looking

832
00:41:23,730 --> 00:41:20,550
from that perspective there could be

833
00:41:27,330 --> 00:41:23,740
multiple slender men all many

834
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:27,340
manifesting for different people rather

835
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:29,770
than it just being one thought form

836
00:41:34,830 --> 00:41:32,890
having being created and I mean I'll

837
00:41:38,790 --> 00:41:34,840
give you an example as to how this has

838
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:38,800
happened in other experiences in cases

839
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:41,170
one of the stories that I tell in the

840
00:41:45,989 --> 00:41:43,690
book revolves around a famous English

841
00:41:49,139 --> 00:41:45,999
comic book writer named Allen

842
00:41:52,229 --> 00:41:49,149
or now to give you an idea of sort of at

843
00:41:55,289 --> 00:41:52,239
the level of success he's had he created

844
00:41:56,549 --> 00:41:55,299
the the constant time character but for

845
00:41:58,649 --> 00:41:56,559
the comic book

846
00:42:01,499 --> 00:41:58,659
where's you know this sort of demon

847
00:42:04,759 --> 00:42:01,509
hunting character was played by Keanu

848
00:42:08,909 --> 00:42:04,769
Reeves in the 2005 movie version and

849
00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:08,919
Alan Moore also created the V for

850
00:42:13,019 --> 00:42:11,049
Vendetta character in the movie of the

851
00:42:16,289 --> 00:42:13,029
same name you know so he's you know he's

852
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:16,299
a big figure in comic book world now

853
00:42:20,869 --> 00:42:18,729
he's gone Alamo has gone on record as

854
00:42:23,959 --> 00:42:20,879
saying that when he was creating or

855
00:42:26,819 --> 00:42:23,969
envisaging the constant iron character

856
00:42:29,999 --> 00:42:26,829
he was you know he was focusing deeply

857
00:42:33,529 --> 00:42:30,009
on him how he would look his appearance

858
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:33,539
his character you know his eyes his hair

859
00:42:38,849 --> 00:42:36,729
his weight the clothes that he wore and

860
00:42:41,729 --> 00:42:38,859
Alan Moore really you know sort of

861
00:42:43,649 --> 00:42:41,739
worked hard to come up with a definitive

862
00:42:47,189 --> 00:42:43,659
character so to speak and he actually

863
00:42:49,649 --> 00:42:47,199
based him on sting from the police that

864
00:42:53,189 --> 00:42:49,659
was that was the kind of image that he

865
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:53,199
had for him now bear in mind Alan Moore

866
00:42:56,519 --> 00:42:55,119
was sort of focusing on this and you

867
00:43:00,089 --> 00:42:56,529
know trying to get it all straight in

868
00:43:03,269 --> 00:43:00,099
his mind and he said one day at the

869
00:43:05,909 --> 00:43:03,279
height of doing all this he was sitting

870
00:43:08,789 --> 00:43:05,919
in a restaurant on the River Thames in

871
00:43:11,479 --> 00:43:08,799
London and he said that he looked up and

872
00:43:14,159 --> 00:43:11,489
he saw what was quite literally the

873
00:43:17,429 --> 00:43:14,169
constant-time character that he created

874
00:43:20,569 --> 00:43:17,439
coming towards him with kind of like her

875
00:43:24,749 --> 00:43:20,579
like almost like a sinister sinister sly

876
00:43:27,539 --> 00:43:24,759
conspiratorial smile on his face you

877
00:43:30,179 --> 00:43:27,549
know as if almost like a warning and it

878
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:30,189
freaked Alan Moore out so deeply that he

879
00:43:34,169 --> 00:43:31,569
just didn't know what to do is kind of

880
00:43:36,899 --> 00:43:34,179
frozen there just staring and he thought

881
00:43:40,109 --> 00:43:36,909
about following him but didn't and you

882
00:43:43,789 --> 00:43:40,119
know the the constant time thought form

883
00:43:47,669 --> 00:43:43,799
if you like then vanished so you know

884
00:43:50,359 --> 00:43:47,679
that is another example of how you know

885
00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:50,369
the mind concentrating on something can

886
00:43:57,389 --> 00:43:53,649
inadvertently create something where you

887
00:43:59,099 --> 00:43:57,399
then become self-aware and as some well

888
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:59,109
you know you know of course you know of

889
00:44:02,550 --> 00:43:59,920
course about

890
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:02,560
Philip yeah exactly that's another good

891
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:05,410
example yeah yeah I mean that's a that's

892
00:44:10,410 --> 00:44:08,410
actually I mean a book was written about

893
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:10,420
that I think for the listeners who are

894
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:13,090
not familiar there was a group where

895
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:15,370
they were up in Canada correct that's

896
00:44:20,850 --> 00:44:18,310
right yeah yeah and they were holding a

897
00:44:25,010 --> 00:44:20,860
seances and answers and all and they

898
00:44:29,460 --> 00:44:25,020
decided that they wanted to create a

899
00:44:35,250 --> 00:44:29,470
fictitious spirit and and it had some of

900
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:35,260
the same properties that so suppose in

901
00:44:40,410 --> 00:44:38,110
real spirits had in the the seance room

902
00:44:45,170 --> 00:44:40,420
and it was almost as if they were

903
00:44:47,580 --> 00:44:45,180
communicating with a living entity

904
00:44:49,910 --> 00:44:47,590
that's right but they'd actually created

905
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:49,920
it and the only take took on its own

906
00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:52,810
independence life if you like is this

907
00:44:59,490 --> 00:44:54,760
character Philip from several hundred

908
00:45:02,820 --> 00:44:59,500
years ago in England and and yeah he

909
00:45:05,010 --> 00:45:02,830
became self-aware and you know it's kind

910
00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:05,020
of like giving birth supernaturally

911
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:09,550
rather in the regular way and but the

912
00:45:14,670 --> 00:45:12,130
big beard I was gonna say but Philip

913
00:45:17,460 --> 00:45:14,680
never had to Gani took on an appearance

914
00:45:19,050 --> 00:45:17,470
it's just yeah basically yeah yeah that

915
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:19,060
was sort of like rapping on the table

916
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:21,970
but you know the but the the basic theme

917
00:45:26,220 --> 00:45:23,770
was the same you know you create

918
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:26,230
something and then you you are able

919
00:45:32,370 --> 00:45:28,930
eventually to contact with it to have

920
00:45:33,870 --> 00:45:32,380
contact with it and speak with it but it

921
00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:33,880
never really existed you know that

922
00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:35,470
that's the odd thing with the Philips

923
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:38,710
story the the people who created him

924
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:42,370
ended up talking to him and he spoke

925
00:45:46,770 --> 00:45:44,770
back but he never ever existed and

926
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:46,780
that's kind of like the Slender Man you

927
00:45:53,490 --> 00:45:50,170
know Eric knudson's Slender Man

928
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:53,500
absolutely was a fictional creation now

929
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:55,450
though people are saying well has he

930
00:46:00,810 --> 00:45:57,850
gone more than just a fictional creation

931
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:00,820
has it become something else you know

932
00:46:05,820 --> 00:46:03,730
and so that's basically know that the

933
00:46:08,730 --> 00:46:05,830
theme that I've followed with the book

934
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:08,740
is to sort of look look at it from that

935
00:46:13,710 --> 00:46:12,610
perspective of you know you have the

936
00:46:16,020 --> 00:46:13,720
original

937
00:46:18,750 --> 00:46:16,030
slenderman on the internet and then you

938
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:18,760
have this sudden spontaneous second

939
00:46:27,359 --> 00:46:23,050
Slenderman service which makes which

940
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:27,369
makes me think though what makes us real

941
00:46:36,780 --> 00:46:31,930
are we just a Slenderman and somebody

942
00:46:38,430 --> 00:46:36,790
somebody else's a universe I mean you

943
00:46:42,810 --> 00:46:38,440
know what is the difference between us

944
00:46:44,730 --> 00:46:42,820
and Wonder Man well I mean there's no

945
00:46:46,380 --> 00:46:44,740
doubt that this sort of story does take

946
00:46:48,359 --> 00:46:46,390
people down different paths you know

947
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:48,369
it's like what is reality what is

948
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:51,970
consciousness you know if the Slender

949
00:46:57,540 --> 00:46:54,910
Man does exist in a thought-form

950
00:47:00,510 --> 00:46:57,550
version does it know what it's actually

951
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:00,520
doing or is he just like a some old

952
00:47:06,900 --> 00:47:03,250
video loop you know just following the

953
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:06,910
the sort of pattern that he does in the

954
00:47:10,170 --> 00:47:09,280
fictional tales you know or does he know

955
00:47:14,339 --> 00:47:10,180
what he's doing

956
00:47:17,010 --> 00:47:14,349
you know so so a lot of questions come

957
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:17,020
to to mind when you when you look into

958
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:19,330
this and and that's why you know as I

959
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:20,880
said I'm sure somebody like a

960
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:23,650
psychiatrist could do an easily good

961
00:47:28,470 --> 00:47:25,650
book but look at it from a more

962
00:47:32,420 --> 00:47:28,480
psychological perspective because you

963
00:47:35,130 --> 00:47:32,430
know if there's no doubt he crosses DIF

964
00:47:36,990 --> 00:47:35,140
different grounds you know in terms of

965
00:47:39,870 --> 00:47:37,000
how you look at it and what your own

966
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:39,880
angle on it is all right Nick no let me

967
00:47:43,140 --> 00:47:41,470
you know up to here because we are

968
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:43,150
coming up to our top of the hour break

969
00:47:46,950 --> 00:47:44,950
and when we return we will continue this

970
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:46,960
conversation about haunted objects and

971
00:47:49,490 --> 00:47:49,089
Slender Man on exploring the bizarre so

972
00:47:58,610 --> 00:47:49,500
stay tuned

973
00:48:05,570 --> 00:48:02,910
explode the bazaars are your e-ticket

974
00:48:08,850 --> 00:48:05,580
ride into the world of the paranoid

975
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:08,860
strap yourself in as we traverse the

976
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:13,170
universe exploring the unexplained UFO s

977
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:17,590
ghosts Lost Worlds cryptozoology waters

978
00:48:26,250 --> 00:48:21,760
as well as other dimensions it's time to

979
00:48:28,500 --> 00:48:26,260
take back the night last night now your

980
00:48:32,130 --> 00:48:28,510
electrifying hosts of exploring the

981
00:48:38,340 --> 00:48:32,140
bizarre Timothy Begley and team sports

982
00:48:40,380 --> 00:48:38,350
and welcome back to exploring the

983
00:48:44,550 --> 00:48:40,390
bizarre sorry Tina I had my mic muted

984
00:48:46,410 --> 00:48:44,560
and didn't realize that we're back on

985
00:48:49,470 --> 00:48:46,420
the second hour and tonight we are

986
00:48:49,980 --> 00:48:49,480
talking with Neil Packer and Nick

987
00:48:53,340 --> 00:48:49,990
Redfern

988
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:53,350
and Neil I wanted to ask you in the

989
00:49:00,840 --> 00:48:58,090
first part of the show you were talking

990
00:49:07,070 --> 00:49:00,850
about a and am i pronouncing this word

991
00:49:10,740 --> 00:49:07,080
correctly is that the Kinect camera yes

992
00:49:13,820 --> 00:49:10,750
things she's off the Xbox right right

993
00:49:17,460 --> 00:49:13,830
Xbox Playstation you know one of those

994
00:49:20,660 --> 00:49:17,470
but it you know it was made to to map

995
00:49:23,540 --> 00:49:20,670
out the motions of the player and

996
00:49:27,030 --> 00:49:23,550
somewhere along the line I guess

997
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:27,040
somebody noticed that every once in a

998
00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:29,920
while this thing was mapping out figures

999
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:32,440
that that weren't in the room I correct

1000
00:49:38,940 --> 00:49:35,920
on this yes right it's really good

1001
00:49:43,410 --> 00:49:38,950
actually yeah so I mean how have you

1002
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:43,420
been using it you know with with your

1003
00:49:50,580 --> 00:49:46,480
research and and yeah are you using it

1004
00:49:52,770 --> 00:49:50,590
in your shop yes we use it and we doing

1005
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:52,780
them are in my center we got a back room

1006
00:49:58,110 --> 00:49:54,880
which called the live feed in sans room

1007
00:49:59,810 --> 00:49:58,120
we have the the SLS camera set up there

1008
00:50:03,110 --> 00:49:59,820
so if people come in they can actually

1009
00:50:06,210 --> 00:50:03,120
look and see if they can see figures and

1010
00:50:08,610 --> 00:50:06,220
fortunately so far whatever song goes to

1011
00:50:11,510 --> 00:50:08,620
the room did maps then what going in

1012
00:50:15,170 --> 00:50:11,520
then they just sent to the side and

1013
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:15,180
quite often another figure will come

1014
00:50:21,590 --> 00:50:17,280
so they actually see it for themselves

1015
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:21,600
are they that finally fascinating so now

1016
00:50:28,550 --> 00:50:25,890
the the building that your your museum

1017
00:50:32,090 --> 00:50:28,560
is located in you said in your in your

1018
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:32,100
bio that it's it's reportedly haunted as

1019
00:50:40,430 --> 00:50:35,730
well yeah it's one of the whole oldest

1020
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:40,440
streets in the town and since we've had

1021
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:42,240
the building we did an overnight

1022
00:50:48,110 --> 00:50:44,250
investigation there before I put the

1023
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:48,120
items in just so we had baseline tests

1024
00:50:52,580 --> 00:50:50,250
so we know by the electricity and all

1025
00:50:55,190 --> 00:50:52,590
that sort of stuff and we at

1026
00:50:56,810 --> 00:50:55,200
communication with spirits are actually

1027
00:51:00,050 --> 00:50:56,820
in the building anyway so that's that's

1028
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:00,060
even better for me all right now so you

1029
00:51:04,010 --> 00:51:02,130
say communication with the spirit I mean

1030
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:04,020
you know how how are you doing this how

1031
00:51:07,220 --> 00:51:05,730
are you using a Ouija board or just

1032
00:51:09,170 --> 00:51:07,230
kidding you know like psychic

1033
00:51:10,820 --> 00:51:09,180
impressions yeah we have we have a

1034
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:10,830
medium with us as well she was picking

1035
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:13,410
up things she was picking up people

1036
00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:17,280
spirit people and also the SLS camera

1037
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:19,110
was mapping people that weren't there

1038
00:51:26,210 --> 00:51:22,800
and we were hearing footsteps we're here

1039
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,220
talking all all sorts of things we don't

1040
00:51:32,060 --> 00:51:29,040
tend to use Ouija boards now and not

1041
00:51:34,460 --> 00:51:32,070
that we're scared of them it's just that

1042
00:51:37,550 --> 00:51:34,470
there it's so easily manipulated by the

1043
00:51:44,300 --> 00:51:37,560
people mm-hmm that we don't tend to use

1044
00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:44,310
them so I mean have you have you gotten

1045
00:51:52,340 --> 00:51:48,180
any information on the the piece of

1046
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:52,350
people that could still be there in that

1047
00:51:57,110 --> 00:51:54,810
area I mean like names or dates or

1048
00:52:01,310 --> 00:51:57,120
anything like that and we know the area

1049
00:52:04,910 --> 00:52:01,320
we when we first moved in we we've the

1050
00:52:07,910 --> 00:52:04,920
medium picked up on an old cobbler since

1051
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:07,920
then we researched it the area and there

1052
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:09,810
was accomplished shop on the ground

1053
00:52:16,310 --> 00:52:14,250
floor and we know there's they used to

1054
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:16,320
be in the alley they used to be street

1055
00:52:23,180 --> 00:52:20,130
fights proper street fighting sort of

1056
00:52:24,590 --> 00:52:23,190
tournaments we've researched that and

1057
00:52:27,590 --> 00:52:24,600
that as he happened

1058
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:27,600
so we are piecing together the whole the

1059
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:35,250
whole picture so when you are dealing

1060
00:52:41,900 --> 00:52:39,480
with a haunted location like your and

1061
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:41,910
like your building and I know this is

1062
00:52:45,650 --> 00:52:43,290
just you know this would just be you

1063
00:52:49,940 --> 00:52:45,660
know speculation on your part do you

1064
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:49,950
think that most of the time you are

1065
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:54,930
dealing actually with people who were

1066
00:53:01,430 --> 00:52:59,520
once alive on are now dead or like like

1067
00:53:03,710 --> 00:53:01,440
you were saying about some of the

1068
00:53:07,550 --> 00:53:03,720
objects you know that you that you have

1069
00:53:12,890 --> 00:53:07,560
in your in your museum are actually just

1070
00:53:14,450 --> 00:53:12,900
more kind of like a residual energy yeah

1071
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:14,460
well we're fortunate because we are we

1072
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:17,490
are both and we've we've picked up on

1073
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:20,610
not the the stone tape theory that a

1074
00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:22,530
recording we've picked up two men

1075
00:53:27,110 --> 00:53:25,500
fighting and but they won't communicate

1076
00:53:31,070 --> 00:53:27,120
their what though we picked him up on

1077
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:31,080
the SLS camera again they won't if you

1078
00:53:34,940 --> 00:53:33,450
say can you wave that just care Karen

1079
00:53:36,770 --> 00:53:34,950
doing what they're doing so we think

1080
00:53:39,770 --> 00:53:36,780
they're just ghosts they're just a

1081
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:39,780
replay but the other spirits in the

1082
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:42,210
building they they will wave to you they

1083
00:53:48,460 --> 00:53:44,970
they will move when you ask them to move

1084
00:53:59,090 --> 00:53:48,470
and they will tap when yes ins tap oh

1085
00:54:01,280 --> 00:53:59,100
they're so creepy so so you're saying

1086
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:01,290
then that you know these these figures

1087
00:54:05,380 --> 00:54:03,570
being picked up in this camera are or at

1088
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:05,390
least you know some of them are actually

1089
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:09,200
responsive to your verbal instructions

1090
00:54:16,190 --> 00:54:13,170
yes yes definitely and we we've caught

1091
00:54:17,390 --> 00:54:16,200
one and we were doing a live feed sort

1092
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:17,400
of a question and answers the viewer

1093
00:54:21,860 --> 00:54:19,050
question sending questions we're

1094
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:21,870
answering and one of the viewers said

1095
00:54:28,490 --> 00:54:25,290
there's a as a dwarf just come in she

1096
00:54:30,890 --> 00:54:28,500
was a she's a medium and we had the SLS

1097
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:30,900
camera and when she said that and we

1098
00:54:36,890 --> 00:54:34,890
said it during the night and this dwarf

1099
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:36,900
was picked up on the SLS camera and it

1100
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:38,010
went and sat on

1101
00:54:43,970 --> 00:54:41,370
table in front of us and all the viewers

1102
00:54:45,590 --> 00:54:43,980
could see this little figure sitting on

1103
00:54:48,770 --> 00:54:45,600
the table in front of us which that was

1104
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:48,780
fascinated with also Monday night's life

1105
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:51,450
he was based around the beind up during

1106
00:54:58,790 --> 00:54:55,410
the war and so I played very Lin's old

1107
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:58,800
song from the from the war and the stick

1108
00:55:03,620 --> 00:55:01,200
man came and he was he looked like he

1109
00:55:06,380 --> 00:55:03,630
was dancing to the music hmm that was

1110
00:55:08,810 --> 00:55:06,390
fascinating Wow

1111
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:08,820
so now has anybody actually seen a

1112
00:55:16,130 --> 00:55:12,270
full-body apparition just under you know

1113
00:55:18,890 --> 00:55:16,140
not using the the camera but just using

1114
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:18,900
you know like you're a regular video

1115
00:55:27,220 --> 00:55:22,530
camera or have any of you know yourself

1116
00:55:32,030 --> 00:55:27,230
or any of your group seen an apparition

1117
00:55:32,420 --> 00:55:32,040
during these times not in not in most

1118
00:55:34,130 --> 00:55:32,430
sense

1119
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:34,140
up to now you said you've been open a

1120
00:55:38,110 --> 00:55:35,910
couple of weeks mm-hmm so we've got

1121
00:55:41,390 --> 00:55:38,120
plenty of time but we have heard

1122
00:55:45,290 --> 00:55:41,400
footsteps we have heard we have seen

1123
00:55:47,810 --> 00:55:45,300
shadows and so the energy is definitely

1124
00:55:52,990 --> 00:55:47,820
building in the room I think I think

1125
00:56:05,570 --> 00:55:58,660
now okay here you have a collection of

1126
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:05,580
objects that are obviously energetic in

1127
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:07,770
one way there okay okay let me let me

1128
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:09,030
backtrack a little bit yeah because I

1129
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:14,160
want to ask you this previously how can

1130
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:16,290
you tell the difference between

1131
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:19,890
something that comes into you that is

1132
00:56:27,650 --> 00:56:22,410
just you know like say like a regular

1133
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:27,660
wheelchair or you know like a regular

1134
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:31,530
you know bric-a-brac and something that

1135
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:35,090
does have some kind of energy or

1136
00:56:39,170 --> 00:56:37,530
whatever you are vibration or whatever

1137
00:56:45,550 --> 00:56:39,180
you want to call it behind it what is

1138
00:56:50,150 --> 00:56:45,560
the difference because I think

1139
00:56:51,769 --> 00:56:50,160
everything has energy around it and some

1140
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:51,779
energy is

1141
00:56:58,430 --> 00:56:53,970
intelligent and will communicate back

1142
00:57:00,259 --> 00:56:58,440
some will only people will sense things

1143
00:57:03,140 --> 00:57:00,269
that like I've said on the live feeds

1144
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:03,150
people will sense different things it's

1145
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:05,970
not that the seeing spirits they're just

1146
00:57:14,359 --> 00:57:08,569
sensing energy around that object

1147
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:14,369
there's so you social set is primarily

1148
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:18,210
yeah so I mean do you think that that

1149
00:57:25,670 --> 00:57:21,930
some items can actually have say like an

1150
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:25,680
actual deceased human you know spirit

1151
00:57:32,059 --> 00:57:28,170
attach itself to it for whatever reason

1152
00:57:34,759 --> 00:57:32,069
yeah definitely and we've got quite a

1153
00:57:36,759 --> 00:57:34,769
few items that the spirits actually down

1154
00:57:40,370 --> 00:57:36,769
all the time with it you know we got a

1155
00:57:44,420 --> 00:57:40,380
death photo death photos were popular in

1156
00:57:46,279 --> 00:57:44,430
Victorian England and so got a photo of

1157
00:57:48,140 --> 00:57:46,289
a girl and she was actually deceased

1158
00:57:51,380 --> 00:57:48,150
when they took the picture and she's

1159
00:57:54,259 --> 00:57:51,390
actually in the meet in my centre she

1160
00:57:56,150 --> 00:57:54,269
always stays with the the photo she's a

1161
00:57:58,819 --> 00:57:56,160
bit sad she always stands in the corner

1162
00:58:01,130 --> 00:57:58,829
which is what different people have

1163
00:58:03,969 --> 00:58:01,140
sensed and mediums have said there's a

1164
00:58:07,209 --> 00:58:03,979
little girl standing in the corner and

1165
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:07,219
so she she's always there we've got a

1166
00:58:14,209 --> 00:58:09,690
adopters back from the Victorian England

1167
00:58:16,670 --> 00:58:14,219
and this this two men always by the bag

1168
00:58:18,410 --> 00:58:16,680
one was the doctor and one was the

1169
00:58:20,630 --> 00:58:18,420
doctor actually murdered people as well

1170
00:58:23,420 --> 00:58:20,640
so it wasn't a nice doctor and so we got

1171
00:58:24,979 --> 00:58:23,430
the doctor hand and he's picked in one

1172
00:58:28,579 --> 00:58:24,989
of his victims there all the time they

1173
00:58:33,859 --> 00:58:28,589
never communicate they just stand around

1174
00:58:36,650 --> 00:58:33,869
this bag alright so why would you think

1175
00:58:40,609 --> 00:58:36,660
that okay say like the the little girl

1176
00:58:44,059 --> 00:58:40,619
attached to the Deaf photo why would she

1177
00:58:46,579 --> 00:58:44,069
be attached to that photo and not to say

1178
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:46,589
you know like where she lived and died

1179
00:58:51,499 --> 00:58:49,650
or enjoyed life or whatever I mean you

1180
00:58:55,269 --> 00:58:51,509
know it to me it would seem unusual that

1181
00:58:58,339 --> 00:58:55,279
that the photo would be the draw for her

1182
00:58:59,930 --> 00:58:58,349
and not someplace that she had been

1183
00:59:02,989 --> 00:58:59,940
emotionally attached you when she was

1184
00:59:04,990 --> 00:59:02,999
live that's very true I think she in

1185
00:59:07,450 --> 00:59:05,000
particular is it is

1186
00:59:11,170 --> 00:59:07,460
that photo because she hates the photo

1187
00:59:15,340 --> 00:59:11,180
and she she's never forgiven her parents

1188
00:59:18,310 --> 00:59:15,350
for for sort of having the photo taken

1189
00:59:19,690 --> 00:59:18,320
because it's not a very nice photo you

1190
00:59:23,650 --> 00:59:19,700
can see there's clearly something wrong

1191
00:59:25,330 --> 00:59:23,660
with her mm-hmm in a in a forehead in

1192
00:59:29,110 --> 00:59:25,340
her hands they hadn't positioned her

1193
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:29,120
right so we we believe she she is so

1194
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:32,570
upset about that photo that she's sort

1195
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:36,890
of put all her energy into it for some

1196
00:59:42,220 --> 00:59:38,930
unknown reason perhaps one day we'll

1197
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:42,230
find out we have because that we we own

1198
00:59:46,030 --> 00:59:43,970
all the items we can actually do more

1199
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:46,040
work with them so we can find out

1200
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:51,050
eventually the reason why now and now I

1201
00:59:58,750 --> 00:59:55,490
know Tim Beckley asked in previously

1202
01:00:01,650 --> 00:59:58,760
about cursed items and it makes me think

1203
01:00:04,860 --> 01:00:01,660
about and I think was located there

1204
01:00:07,660 --> 01:00:04,870
somewhere in England there was a

1205
01:00:10,390 --> 01:00:07,670
painting actually I think even the the

1206
01:00:12,490 --> 01:00:10,400
prints of this painting what was it was

1207
01:00:15,130 --> 01:00:12,500
like the the the the crying boy or

1208
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:15,140
something like that yeah and anybody who

1209
01:00:19,030 --> 01:00:16,850
you know had that there their house

1210
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:19,040
would burn down or you know some kind of

1211
01:00:25,150 --> 01:00:21,770
you know horrible ill thing would happen

1212
01:00:28,180 --> 01:00:25,160
I mean you'd you put any stock in in you

1213
01:00:30,550 --> 01:00:28,190
know any of these kinds of stories and I

1214
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:30,560
we do actually have a picture of the

1215
01:00:37,510 --> 01:00:34,000
crying boy mmm in the center and I

1216
01:00:40,180 --> 01:00:37,520
personally I don't it's the only reason

1217
01:00:41,620 --> 01:00:40,190
I bought this picture is because it sort

1218
01:00:46,030 --> 01:00:41,630
of goes hand in hand with what we're

1219
01:00:48,100 --> 01:00:46,040
doing people know about it and they ask

1220
01:00:50,260 --> 01:00:48,110
questions about itself research it's

1221
01:00:54,550 --> 01:00:50,270
I've got a plank next to it explain

1222
01:00:56,500 --> 01:00:54,560
telling the story of it but I think it's

1223
01:00:59,740 --> 01:00:56,510
these pictures were mass-produced and

1224
01:01:02,560 --> 01:00:59,750
they're just prints so personally I

1225
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:02,570
don't buy into this crime boy story

1226
01:01:09,820 --> 01:01:06,640
right well I mean have have any of your

1227
01:01:13,210 --> 01:01:09,830
psychics you know tried to get any

1228
01:01:15,340 --> 01:01:13,220
impression on off of it and and just you

1229
01:01:16,780 --> 01:01:15,350
know like that there's nothing here now

1230
01:01:17,570 --> 01:01:16,790
we haven't done any work on drawing boy

1231
01:01:20,450 --> 01:01:17,580
yeah

1232
01:01:23,780 --> 01:01:20,460
that will that will come when we get

1233
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:23,790
around to it because we've got so many

1234
01:01:31,940 --> 01:01:26,730
items and so many more interesting items

1235
01:01:34,460 --> 01:01:31,950
than in the picture oh so now have you

1236
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:34,470
you said earlier that you know you have

1237
01:01:38,540 --> 01:01:36,480
you've had people you're contacting you

1238
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:38,550
about their own items and I mean are

1239
01:01:44,300 --> 01:01:42,930
people wanting to donate them to you or

1240
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:44,310
are they trying to say you know I'll try

1241
01:01:48,260 --> 01:01:46,050
to make a buck and you know sell things

1242
01:01:49,460 --> 01:01:48,270
to you or are they just more interested

1243
01:01:52,070 --> 01:01:49,470
it's like you know just get this damn

1244
01:01:55,340 --> 01:01:52,080
thing out of my house and some people

1245
01:01:57,050 --> 01:01:55,350
won't they contact me and said about

1246
01:01:59,450 --> 01:01:57,060
it's that these they tell me this big

1247
01:02:00,920 --> 01:01:59,460
elaborate story about this item and I

1248
01:02:03,500 --> 01:02:00,930
say yeah you can always send it to me

1249
01:02:06,140 --> 01:02:03,510
and they'll say how much will you pay

1250
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:06,150
and it's what people say that I think no

1251
01:02:11,780 --> 01:02:09,690
I'm not interested because hey there's

1252
01:02:13,610 --> 01:02:11,790
no there's there's no proof that I'm

1253
01:02:15,170 --> 01:02:13,620
gonna get anything from it and plus I

1254
01:02:17,900 --> 01:02:15,180
think they just they just want to make

1255
01:02:19,820 --> 01:02:17,910
the money like you said and I'm more

1256
01:02:21,650 --> 01:02:19,830
interested when people contact me and

1257
01:02:23,390 --> 01:02:21,660
says I've had all this and to be

1258
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:23,400
appaling can I send it to you and

1259
01:02:27,470 --> 01:02:25,410
they'll send it to me free of charge so

1260
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:27,480
that that's more interesting to me

1261
01:02:31,790 --> 01:02:28,890
because they're not making anything from

1262
01:02:36,980 --> 01:02:31,800
it they just interested to see what we

1263
01:02:40,370 --> 01:02:36,990
can pick up and I majority of the stuff

1264
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:40,380
that you get I mean is there something

1265
01:02:45,830 --> 01:02:42,690
to it I mean I can and you know like

1266
01:02:48,170 --> 01:02:45,840
your your psychic friends take ahold of

1267
01:02:49,610 --> 01:02:48,180
and say oh yeah this is you know there's

1268
01:02:51,500 --> 01:02:49,620
this is this is something good you got

1269
01:02:54,110 --> 01:02:51,510
ahold of something really good here yes

1270
01:02:56,510 --> 01:02:54,120
everything that we've been sent or we've

1271
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:56,520
been given we have had something from

1272
01:03:02,770 --> 01:03:00,240
from if with the mediums so it's it's

1273
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:02,780
working out well so far obviously I will

1274
01:03:09,860 --> 01:03:05,130
offend you get start again stuff that's

1275
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:09,870
that's not really with my my time to be

1276
01:03:15,580 --> 01:03:13,530
honest but I'll accept anything that

1277
01:03:18,140 --> 01:03:15,590
people want to sink sent to me because

1278
01:03:22,300 --> 01:03:18,150
they obviously believe there's something

1279
01:03:25,070 --> 01:03:22,310
to it and so I'll look into it for them

1280
01:03:27,260 --> 01:03:25,080
Maxine okay now there's there's there's

1281
01:03:30,450 --> 01:03:27,270
the factor there they believe that there

1282
01:03:32,970 --> 01:03:30,460
could be something to it which Nick

1283
01:03:35,970 --> 01:03:32,980
to bring you into this conversation

1284
01:03:39,359 --> 01:03:35,980
again because that brings us back to

1285
01:03:42,570 --> 01:03:39,369
Slenderman because here we have as you

1286
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:42,580
were saying almost this collective a

1287
01:03:48,660 --> 01:03:46,930
belief system that brought about with

1288
01:03:50,579 --> 01:03:48,670
the help of the Internet which you know

1289
01:03:53,130 --> 01:03:50,589
makes me wonder if something like this

1290
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:53,140
would have been possible without the

1291
01:04:02,040 --> 01:03:55,839
internet but you have this collective

1292
01:04:06,420 --> 01:04:02,050
belief that really seem to almost bring

1293
01:04:10,500 --> 01:04:06,430
this thing alive it developed a reality

1294
01:04:13,109 --> 01:04:10,510
all of its own yeah and I think you know

1295
01:04:16,290 --> 01:04:13,119
you can potentially apply that angle to

1296
01:04:18,930 --> 01:04:16,300
a lot of unsolved mysteries I mean you

1297
01:04:21,030 --> 01:04:18,940
know I'm not you know that well-versed

1298
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:21,040
in the sort of things that the male

1299
01:04:25,589 --> 01:04:22,960
research is you know he knows way more

1300
01:04:29,099 --> 01:04:25,599
about this than I do but you know I do

1301
01:04:32,099 --> 01:04:29,109
sometimes wonder if some ghosts may

1302
01:04:34,380 --> 01:04:32,109
actually be you know the you've got a

1303
01:04:37,050 --> 01:04:34,390
situation where the relatives of

1304
01:04:39,150 --> 01:04:37,060
somebody dies and they're so crushed and

1305
01:04:42,900 --> 01:04:39,160
destroyed you know having lost the

1306
01:04:45,060 --> 01:04:42,910
husband wife or whatever and you know

1307
01:04:47,579 --> 01:04:45,070
they just want to see him one last time

1308
01:04:49,710 --> 01:04:47,589
I sometimes wonder you know if not every

1309
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:49,720
case obviously because like Neil said

1310
01:04:53,310 --> 01:04:51,280
you know there could be different

1311
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:53,320
explanations for different phenomena but

1312
01:05:00,450 --> 01:04:57,280
I do sometimes wonder if somebody sees a

1313
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:00,460
dead relative if it could actually be

1314
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:03,010
you know the mind has created like a

1315
01:05:07,470 --> 01:05:05,910
thought-form version you know the

1316
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:07,480
subconscious part of your mind

1317
01:05:13,859 --> 01:05:11,680
essentially giving you like like a

1318
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:13,869
safety net you know like a comfort

1319
01:05:18,420 --> 01:05:16,570
blanket kind of thing almost to reassure

1320
01:05:20,510 --> 01:05:18,430
you and you you know and your

1321
01:05:23,460 --> 01:05:20,520
subconscious may have actually done it

1322
01:05:25,170 --> 01:05:23,470
itself so to speak but again I don't

1323
01:05:26,970 --> 01:05:25,180
think it explains everything but I do

1324
01:05:31,079 --> 01:05:26,980
sometimes wonder if it might explain

1325
01:05:34,290 --> 01:05:31,089
some cases at least you know it it makes

1326
01:05:37,260 --> 01:05:34,300
me think about there was a Japanese

1327
01:05:41,190 --> 01:05:37,270
anime made back in the 1990s called

1328
01:05:43,770 --> 01:05:41,200
serial experiment Lane where it starts

1329
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:43,780
out with

1330
01:05:49,950 --> 01:05:45,930
kids basically committing suicide

1331
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:49,960
because they wanted to start living in

1332
01:05:53,970 --> 01:05:51,490
they called it

1333
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:53,980
I think the wire which you know

1334
01:05:58,200 --> 01:05:55,210
basically I mean they were just talking

1335
01:06:03,810 --> 01:05:58,210
about about the internet and then as the

1336
01:06:08,460 --> 01:06:03,820
story progresses it's it's it's it's

1337
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:08,470
almost like the the Internet itself has

1338
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:11,050
developed a consciousness and

1339
01:06:17,430 --> 01:06:13,930
intelligence all of its own and actually

1340
01:06:21,570 --> 01:06:17,440
starts to think of itself as as God and

1341
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:21,580
then starts to manifest itself in the

1342
01:06:27,090 --> 01:06:23,920
real world and and the main character

1343
01:06:29,610 --> 01:06:27,100
you eventually you find out is you know

1344
01:06:32,730 --> 01:06:29,620
is not a living person like you know

1345
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:32,740
like we are but is actually a physical

1346
01:06:41,700 --> 01:06:38,050
manifestation from the wire and it's

1347
01:06:44,730 --> 01:06:41,710
just we see things like Slenderman and

1348
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:44,740
and some of these other memes that have

1349
01:06:49,970 --> 01:06:47,290
taken on a life of their own and and

1350
01:06:53,010 --> 01:06:49,980
again it's just like you know is is

1351
01:06:56,610 --> 01:06:53,020
reality mimicking fiction or is fiction

1352
01:06:58,350 --> 01:06:56,620
mimicking reality question or is it a

1353
01:07:00,510 --> 01:06:58,360
bit of both but I mean interesting you

1354
01:07:02,430 --> 01:07:00,520
bring up the the issue of the internet

1355
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:02,440
because you know there is this sort of

1356
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:05,770
school of thought they the idea that the

1357
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:08,410
Internet is becoming self-aware and I

1358
01:07:12,270 --> 01:07:10,210
mentioned that in the book mainly

1359
01:07:16,470 --> 01:07:12,280
because one of the people I interviewed

1360
01:07:18,930 --> 01:07:16,480
for the book was a girl named Lacey and

1361
01:07:20,310 --> 01:07:18,940
she's a which is actually a full flight

1362
01:07:22,260 --> 01:07:20,320
attendant there where she was a trainee

1363
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:22,270
flight attendant when I interviewed her

1364
01:07:29,730 --> 01:07:26,640
and she by her own admission had an

1365
01:07:32,010 --> 01:07:29,740
interest in the Slenderman phenomenon

1366
01:07:34,620 --> 01:07:32,020
which developed quite quickly into like

1367
01:07:37,140 --> 01:07:34,630
a full-blown obsession and you do find

1368
01:07:40,740 --> 01:07:37,150
that does happen sometimes in relation

1369
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:40,750
to the Slenderman and she basically did

1370
01:07:44,910 --> 01:07:43,090
halt all her research sort of online on

1371
01:07:49,650 --> 01:07:44,920
the Internet you know she took part in a

1372
01:07:52,140 --> 01:07:49,660
lot of chat rooms and forums and she you

1373
01:07:54,750 --> 01:07:52,150
know she printed off a bunch of pictures

1374
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:54,760
of the paper made of the Slenderman and

1375
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:56,650
framed them and put them in one of her

1376
01:07:59,430 --> 01:07:57,250
rooms

1377
01:08:02,550 --> 01:07:59,440
you know he's almost like a Slenderman

1378
01:08:05,010 --> 01:08:02,560
room so to speak and she did rebuy

1379
01:08:06,990 --> 01:08:05,020
unambitious I said she got really deep

1380
01:08:09,030 --> 01:08:07,000
into it to where it'd be you know it

1381
01:08:11,790 --> 01:08:09,040
sort of took up a lot of her free time

1382
01:08:15,510 --> 01:08:11,800
and she told me that on one occasion

1383
01:08:17,999 --> 01:08:15,520
that when she was on a laptop and again

1384
01:08:22,710 --> 01:08:18,009
like so many people you know she was so

1385
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:22,720
deeply into all this she saw like almost

1386
01:08:29,099 --> 01:08:26,170
like a like a figure almost like a

1387
01:08:32,190 --> 01:08:29,109
shadowy figure on the laptop of like

1388
01:08:34,650 --> 01:08:32,200
this spindly skinny character then

1389
01:08:37,559 --> 01:08:34,660
another occasion she said very briefly

1390
01:08:42,059 --> 01:08:37,569
she saw this sort of faceless face and

1391
01:08:44,970 --> 01:08:42,069
then on the third occasion she actually

1392
01:08:47,490 --> 01:08:44,980
heard a voice coming through basically

1393
01:08:49,289 --> 01:08:47,500
through the mic and I forget the exact

1394
01:08:52,650 --> 01:08:49,299
words now but it was along the lines of

1395
01:08:55,230 --> 01:08:52,660
we're friends now or no now we are

1396
01:08:57,450 --> 01:08:55,240
friends that kind of thing and that was

1397
01:08:59,870 --> 01:08:57,460
kind of a last straw for her and she

1398
01:09:03,749 --> 01:08:59,880
told me that what she did she actually

1399
01:09:06,210 --> 01:09:03,759
got rid of all her files all the took

1400
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:06,220
down all the pictures throw them out and

1401
01:09:12,420 --> 01:09:10,210
I mentioned robbing swamp earlier who

1402
01:09:15,349 --> 01:09:12,430
wrote an earlier book on the Slender Man

1403
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:15,359
and she had a copy of Robyn's book and

1404
01:09:22,620 --> 01:09:20,560
she didn't just she's actually throw out

1405
01:09:24,630 --> 01:09:22,630
Robyn's book what she actually did she

1406
01:09:26,340 --> 01:09:24,640
burned it what she did she put it in

1407
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:26,350
like a metal container in the sink and

1408
01:09:30,809 --> 01:09:28,210
set it on fire and she was so stressed

1409
01:09:33,090 --> 01:09:30,819
she didn't think about the fact of the

1410
01:09:34,890 --> 01:09:33,100
alarm you know the fire alarm going off

1411
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:34,900
in the apartment so she had a sort of

1412
01:09:38,430 --> 01:09:36,370
quickly when it went off she had to

1413
01:09:40,499 --> 01:09:38,440
quickly go to the front door of her

1414
01:09:42,900 --> 01:09:40,509
apartment and just throw it outside and

1415
01:09:45,480 --> 01:09:42,910
let it sort of burn up itself you know

1416
01:09:49,110 --> 01:09:45,490
that's how sort of mind was in a whirl

1417
01:09:53,190 --> 01:09:49,120
and but yeah she literally burned the

1418
01:09:55,890 --> 01:09:53,200
book Robyn's book and so you know you do

1419
01:09:59,160 --> 01:09:55,900
have this crossover where you've got the

1420
01:10:01,290 --> 01:09:59,170
original Slender Man as as a fictional

1421
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:01,300
creation then you've got the

1422
01:10:06,870 --> 01:10:03,850
thought-form version and then there's a

1423
01:10:09,330 --> 01:10:06,880
possibility that you know if you focus

1424
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:09,340
on something on the Internet is the end

1425
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:11,290
Internet becoming aware

1426
01:10:16,860 --> 01:10:14,170
of your patents and are we seeing

1427
01:10:18,990 --> 01:10:16,870
something similar to thee you know

1428
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:19,000
something like the the matrix you know

1429
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:23,650
where you have this online world and you

1430
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:25,210
know like in the Matrix movies really

1431
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:27,010
we're actually living in and I well it's

1432
01:10:32,970 --> 01:10:30,130
the world we think we're living in is

1433
01:10:34,590 --> 01:10:32,980
like an online dream world but the real

1434
01:10:39,690 --> 01:10:34,600
world is you know we're all in these

1435
01:10:42,300 --> 01:10:39,700
pods providing energy to the robots so

1436
01:10:46,830 --> 01:10:42,310
you know you do have that kind of

1437
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:46,840
crossover and you're just just just a

1438
01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:50,650
weird set of situations really mmm-hmm

1439
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:53,050
all right well we need to go to our

1440
01:10:56,730 --> 01:10:54,970
bottom and out of the break I can't

1441
01:10:58,410 --> 01:10:56,740
believe we're already this far into the

1442
01:11:00,930 --> 01:10:58,420
show so when we come back we'll continue

1443
01:11:03,900 --> 01:11:00,940
our conversation with Neil Packer and

1444
01:11:06,540 --> 01:11:03,910
Nick Redfern on exploring the bizarre so

1445
01:11:15,370 --> 01:11:06,550
stay tuned for more spooky stuff

1446
01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:19,520
now back to exploring the bazaar with

1447
01:11:25,100 --> 01:11:22,110
two of the most electrifying researchers

1448
01:11:30,620 --> 01:11:25,110
in the Paranoid your hosts Timothy

1449
01:11:32,780 --> 01:11:30,630
effectively and Taylor Swift's okay

1450
01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:32,790
final segment of explore in the bazaars

1451
01:11:39,380 --> 01:11:34,860
so I better get our questions in before

1452
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:39,390
we run out of time so deal talking with

1453
01:11:46,399 --> 01:11:43,370
Nick and you know discussing the idea of

1454
01:11:50,180 --> 01:11:46,409
things basically developing you know

1455
01:11:53,180 --> 01:11:50,190
like a life in consciousness all their

1456
01:11:55,390 --> 01:11:53,190
own you know they're there's a theory

1457
01:11:58,010 --> 01:11:55,400
and this has been a prevalent theory for

1458
01:11:59,780 --> 01:11:58,020
centuries actually you know if

1459
01:12:02,780 --> 01:11:59,790
philosophers have loved to kick this so

1460
01:12:06,380 --> 01:12:02,790
this one around that that basically you

1461
01:12:10,459 --> 01:12:06,390
know everything in the universe has has

1462
01:12:14,689 --> 01:12:10,469
consciousness you know now of course the

1463
01:12:17,180 --> 01:12:14,699
more I suppose the more developed the

1464
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:17,190
thing that the greater the consciousness

1465
01:12:23,870 --> 01:12:21,570
but you know I know that Buddhism and

1466
01:12:25,490 --> 01:12:23,880
you know certain aspects of Hinduism you

1467
01:12:28,310 --> 01:12:25,500
know looks at it you know like you know

1468
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:28,320
like even rocks have a form of

1469
01:12:33,140 --> 01:12:31,290
consciousness so now here you have been

1470
01:12:39,370 --> 01:12:33,150
collecting you know antiques and other

1471
01:12:44,300 --> 01:12:39,380
objects that that you say are energetic

1472
01:12:51,350 --> 01:12:44,310
do you think that these items have to

1473
01:12:54,890 --> 01:12:51,360
have a human element to energize them or

1474
01:12:56,959 --> 01:12:54,900
do you think that that some of these

1475
01:13:01,040 --> 01:12:56,969
things could actually just you know go

1476
01:13:04,540 --> 01:13:01,050
off on their own sort of speak I'm

1477
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:04,550
researching the theory that I have

1478
01:13:08,540 --> 01:13:06,810
everything you touch you leave a trace

1479
01:13:11,149 --> 01:13:08,550
of your energy on it and so that's

1480
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:11,159
that's how I'm basing what we do that

1481
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:13,530
everything you go through your life you

1482
01:13:20,149 --> 01:13:16,770
touch it you leave your trace of your

1483
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:20,159
energy on it so we we are tapping into

1484
01:13:24,850 --> 01:13:22,650
energy so I think we are looking into

1485
01:13:30,460 --> 01:13:24,860
personal interaction

1486
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:30,470
with the items mm-hmm and so I mean

1487
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:33,050
since there have been you know people on

1488
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:37,610
this planet you know for millions of

1489
01:13:48,700 --> 01:13:42,530
years probably so basically that you're

1490
01:13:54,490 --> 01:13:48,710
talking about really everything has that

1491
01:13:56,440 --> 01:13:54,500
that that vibration so to speak yeah so

1492
01:14:01,180 --> 01:13:56,450
far scuse me so far everything we've

1493
01:14:08,020 --> 01:14:01,190
done we've been able to get to interact

1494
01:14:10,510 --> 01:14:08,030
with energy perhaps we'll we'll get to

1495
01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:10,520
an item one soon that we won't be able

1496
01:14:16,950 --> 01:14:13,360
to get some reaction to it's so far

1497
01:14:21,190 --> 01:14:16,960
every every single thing that that we've

1498
01:14:24,430 --> 01:14:21,200
researched into we've found some energy

1499
01:14:25,060 --> 01:14:24,440
on it that we can tap into well that's

1500
01:14:29,020 --> 01:14:25,070
fascinating

1501
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:29,030
have you ever did you know taking the

1502
01:14:34,780 --> 01:14:31,570
you're taking your mediums out someplace

1503
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:34,790
you know and just touch say like maybe

1504
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:38,690
you know like a standing stone or you

1505
01:14:43,020 --> 01:14:41,210
know something along those lines I would

1506
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:43,030
love to yeah and now we've got

1507
01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:46,130
Stonehenge and I would love to go there

1508
01:14:52,030 --> 01:14:49,970
and and I'm and see if what energy we

1509
01:14:54,100 --> 01:14:52,040
can pick off on from them especially but

1510
01:14:56,380 --> 01:14:54,110
standing stones we got standing stones

1511
01:14:59,230 --> 01:14:56,390
not far away you know we're not far from

1512
01:15:01,900 --> 01:14:59,240
kind of chase mm-hmm though that's

1513
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:01,910
something else that we really want to do

1514
01:15:06,850 --> 01:15:03,890
is it's just finding time in the Medicus

1515
01:15:09,610 --> 01:15:06,860
we all work full-time so this is sort of

1516
01:15:14,110 --> 01:15:09,620
a sideline at the minute and we are

1517
01:15:16,570 --> 01:15:14,120
hoping that it will get big enough to

1518
01:15:21,100 --> 01:15:16,580
become full-time and to give us more

1519
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:21,110
chance to to research even further so we

1520
01:15:27,310 --> 01:15:24,290
have a we have a question from Jerry and

1521
01:15:29,410 --> 01:15:27,320
John O'Neil that first of all you want

1522
01:15:35,470 --> 01:15:29,420
to know if you're familiar with Zach's

1523
01:15:36,460 --> 01:15:35,480
museum and that's Zach I think from was

1524
01:15:37,580 --> 01:15:36,470
it Ghost Adventures

1525
01:15:44,990 --> 01:15:37,590
yeah

1526
01:15:48,850 --> 01:15:45,000
think what do you think about his museum

1527
01:15:51,589 --> 01:15:48,860
his collection um I I would look to go

1528
01:15:52,820 --> 01:15:51,599
but I think he's his slot Egyptian mine

1529
01:15:55,399 --> 01:15:52,830
I don't think you're allowed to touch

1530
01:15:57,050 --> 01:15:55,409
the items I think he more he goes more

1531
01:16:01,540 --> 01:15:57,060
for the negatives sort of side of things

1532
01:16:04,220 --> 01:16:01,550
and whereas most of ours is positive

1533
01:16:06,740 --> 01:16:04,230
obviously if someone sent is something

1534
01:16:08,689 --> 01:16:06,750
that was I did have a negative

1535
01:16:09,859 --> 01:16:08,699
attachment will will accept that and

1536
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:09,869
we'll work with that as well

1537
01:16:14,780 --> 01:16:12,690
it just frightened me at all but I would

1538
01:16:17,780 --> 01:16:14,790
love to go to Zak's Museum and perhaps

1539
01:16:20,260 --> 01:16:17,790
even do some live feeds from there that

1540
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:20,270
would be fascinating

1541
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:23,250
well juries other question is is that is

1542
01:16:29,839 --> 01:16:26,489
it safe to have you know that many

1543
01:16:32,030 --> 01:16:29,849
objects in one place of a you know you

1544
01:16:34,339 --> 01:16:32,040
said there right now you've got over

1545
01:16:38,629 --> 01:16:34,349
over 50 items I mean that's that's a lot

1546
01:16:42,140 --> 01:16:38,639
of energetic items in in one location I

1547
01:16:43,339 --> 01:16:42,150
mean is is there it is it safe I mean is

1548
01:16:47,899 --> 01:16:43,349
there a chance you end up with you know

1549
01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:47,909
with a psychic tornados on board that's

1550
01:16:51,020 --> 01:16:48,810
fascinating

1551
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:51,030
the the energy certainly is building in

1552
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:53,610
the center and you can actually feel it

1553
01:17:01,070 --> 01:16:57,840
as you when you go in and I do think the

1554
01:17:02,780 --> 01:17:01,080
more energy that we build in our Center

1555
01:17:04,490 --> 01:17:02,790
it attracts more spirits from the

1556
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:04,500
surrounding area so they're coming as

1557
01:17:10,669 --> 01:17:07,770
well so the the possibilities endless to

1558
01:17:13,430 --> 01:17:10,679
what we can do is just building and

1559
01:17:15,410 --> 01:17:13,440
building all the energy that we can but

1560
01:17:18,399 --> 01:17:15,420
I don't think there's any danger yeah

1561
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:18,409
you know I've got a friend who's very

1562
01:17:25,790 --> 01:17:22,010
psychic and she says that you know

1563
01:17:29,510 --> 01:17:25,800
locations that have a lot of energy you

1564
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:29,520
know like your Museum he said actually

1565
01:17:37,220 --> 01:17:33,570
it it's like a spotlight almost or you

1566
01:17:39,919 --> 01:17:37,230
know they didn't just it he glows in

1567
01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:39,929
that you know whatever you'd want to

1568
01:17:45,229 --> 01:17:42,330
call it you know the the astral field or

1569
01:17:47,570 --> 01:17:45,239
whatever and that anything you know it

1570
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:47,580
was like you said anything close by can

1571
01:17:50,700 --> 01:17:49,650
see that ends up getting drawn into it

1572
01:17:52,350 --> 01:17:50,710
yeah

1573
01:17:55,890 --> 01:17:52,360
I think I think it's like having a bit

1574
01:17:57,720 --> 01:17:55,900
of a beacon on the roof and the spirits

1575
01:18:00,780 --> 01:17:57,730
can see it and they're all attracted to

1576
01:18:03,690 --> 01:18:00,790
it and I think that's why we are getting

1577
01:18:06,810 --> 01:18:03,700
so much activity which is fascinating

1578
01:18:08,610 --> 01:18:06,820
and it's like I said it's endless what

1579
01:18:12,300 --> 01:18:08,620
we can we can do we got so many new

1580
01:18:15,420 --> 01:18:12,310
ideas that we can try and so we've got

1581
01:18:16,979 --> 01:18:15,430
lots more coming up soon all right well

1582
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:16,989
we have another question and this one's

1583
01:18:24,450 --> 01:18:20,890
for Nick and Nick this person wants to

1584
01:18:26,970 --> 01:18:24,460
know that you know I mean you know we've

1585
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:26,980
we've talked about the case of the of

1586
01:18:33,209 --> 01:18:30,010
the girls attempting to kill their

1587
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:33,219
friend as a sacrifice the Slenderman how

1588
01:18:40,260 --> 01:18:38,290
many other cases have come about like

1589
01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:40,270
this I mean I know this one is the one

1590
01:18:47,220 --> 01:18:45,040
that's gotten the most publicity but but

1591
01:18:50,310 --> 01:18:47,230
do you I mean have there been others and

1592
01:18:51,930 --> 01:18:50,320
you know has and I know that there there

1593
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:51,940
was a Slenderman movie but that's that's

1594
01:18:58,490 --> 01:18:54,250
more recent things so I can't really

1595
01:19:01,229 --> 01:18:58,500
think that that would be you know like a

1596
01:19:05,430 --> 01:19:01,239
draw for people to you know try to

1597
01:19:07,890 --> 01:19:05,440
emulate that yeah actually I've been a

1598
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:07,900
couple of cases there was one where a

1599
01:19:13,830 --> 01:19:10,090
girl this was just literally in the

1600
01:19:17,250 --> 01:19:13,840
almost the immediate wake of the of the

1601
01:19:20,070 --> 01:19:17,260
attack on the girl where a girl actually

1602
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:20,080
burned down her house falling out with

1603
01:19:24,959 --> 01:19:23,050
her mother and turned out you know she

1604
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:24,969
got this journal which showed she was

1605
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:26,650
obsessed with the Slenderman but one

1606
01:19:31,740 --> 01:19:29,290
that you may know you know we--you

1607
01:19:34,290 --> 01:19:31,750
Nevada connection I mean there's this

1608
01:19:38,970 --> 01:19:34,300
remember Jared Miller went on a shooting

1609
01:19:40,979 --> 01:19:38,980
spree yep yeah well Jared Miller I mean

1610
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:40,989
him and his wife

1611
01:19:46,229 --> 01:19:43,210
they both had obsessions with the

1612
01:19:48,420 --> 01:19:46,239
Slenderman and they even costume parties

1613
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:48,430
and things like that where they dress up

1614
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:52,570
as the Slenderman and the Joker and you

1615
01:19:57,990 --> 01:19:54,610
know and they got caught up in that

1616
01:19:59,220 --> 01:19:58,000
obsession as well so and you do find

1617
01:20:01,590 --> 01:19:59,230
that when that happens

1618
01:20:04,770 --> 01:20:01,600
there's an obsession with a slender man

1619
01:20:08,910 --> 01:20:04,780
it's never anything positive you know

1620
01:20:11,670 --> 01:20:08,920
it's it's always got this negative kind

1621
01:20:15,750 --> 01:20:11,680
of dark cloud around it and it affects

1622
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:15,760
people's minds and to where you know

1623
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:18,130
that like I said like laces story they a

1624
01:20:25,260 --> 01:20:21,730
flight attendants you know way to really

1625
01:20:26,820 --> 01:20:25,270
affect people's characters the thing

1626
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:26,830
that I noticed about some of the cases

1627
01:20:32,900 --> 01:20:29,890
that you have had in your book was that

1628
01:20:35,850 --> 01:20:32,910
a lot of a majority of it seems like

1629
01:20:38,430 --> 01:20:35,860
involve teenage girls or you know are

1630
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:38,440
almost like you know preteen girls I

1631
01:20:45,690 --> 01:20:41,650
mean is this and and I can't really I

1632
01:20:49,710 --> 01:20:45,700
can't think offhand of a lot of cases

1633
01:20:54,810 --> 01:20:49,720
where too many boys have been involved

1634
01:20:57,540 --> 01:20:54,820
in this Slenderman obsession yeah for

1635
01:21:00,110 --> 01:20:57,550
the most part the people who are really

1636
01:21:03,450 --> 01:21:00,120
into the Slender Man phenomenon are

1637
01:21:06,630 --> 01:21:03,460
children and teenagers and a lot of them

1638
01:21:07,950 --> 01:21:06,640
are girls now you know there are you

1639
01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:07,960
know a lot of boys as well but yeah I

1640
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:10,510
mean you do find that most of the

1641
01:21:14,970 --> 01:21:12,250
stories that have surfaced so a lot of

1642
01:21:17,850 --> 01:21:14,980
them do revolve around girls there's no

1643
01:21:20,580 --> 01:21:17,860
doubt about that but what I would say I

1644
01:21:24,300 --> 01:21:20,590
mean one of the for me one of the most

1645
01:21:26,070 --> 01:21:24,310
eye-opening interviews that I did this

1646
01:21:28,530 --> 01:21:26,080
actually does revolve around a young boy

1647
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:28,540
I didn't need to with a guy named Olaf

1648
01:21:32,910 --> 01:21:31,330
Phillips and Olaf runs paranoia

1649
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:32,920
magazines which he sort of one of the

1650
01:21:38,670 --> 01:21:36,610
last few actually printed magazines on

1651
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:38,680
the paranormal and conspiracies and

1652
01:21:44,220 --> 01:21:41,170
whatever and all I was telling me how

1653
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:44,230
his son got interested in the Slender

1654
01:21:47,910 --> 01:21:46,570
Man phenomenon and all I didn't know

1655
01:21:50,340 --> 01:21:47,920
anything about this and one of the

1656
01:21:53,070 --> 01:21:50,350
Monday because all I was actually sort

1657
01:21:54,450 --> 01:21:53,080
of working on or planning on doing

1658
01:21:56,310 --> 01:21:54,460
something on the Slender lampreys

1659
01:21:58,350 --> 01:21:56,320
magazine and he just casually said to

1660
01:22:00,480 --> 01:21:58,360
his son who was about six or seven at

1661
01:22:02,190 --> 01:22:00,490
the time have you heard of the Slender

1662
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:02,200
Man and he said he's son kind of went

1663
01:22:07,620 --> 01:22:05,530
quiet and any sensible why you asking

1664
01:22:10,740 --> 01:22:07,630
kind of thing and so you know I'm just

1665
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:10,750
looking into it and as all I've sort of

1666
01:22:16,060 --> 01:22:12,650
questioned him a little bit more

1667
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:16,070
his son came out and mitad the him and

1668
01:22:21,070 --> 01:22:18,530
all his friends at school were all into

1669
01:22:24,010 --> 01:22:21,080
the Slenderman but they chose not to

1670
01:22:27,130 --> 01:22:24,020
tell the parents the grown-ups the old

1671
01:22:29,350 --> 01:22:27,140
guys you know it was there as kids it

1672
01:22:32,350 --> 01:22:29,360
was their little secret and so you had

1673
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:32,360
this undercurrent of nearly all the kids

1674
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:35,210
in the class being obsessed with the

1675
01:22:40,419 --> 01:22:37,760
Slenderman fascinated by talking about

1676
01:22:42,700 --> 01:22:40,429
it and being very careful not to let

1677
01:22:45,660 --> 01:22:42,710
their parents know because it was their

1678
01:22:48,669 --> 01:22:45,670
it was their story was their secret and

1679
01:22:50,950 --> 01:22:48,679
you know life found this fascinating but

1680
01:22:52,270 --> 01:22:50,960
also a little bit worrying as well and

1681
01:22:54,510 --> 01:22:52,280
then of course you know he thought well

1682
01:22:58,390 --> 01:22:54,520
how many other kids around the country

1683
01:23:01,419 --> 01:22:58,400
are fixating on this and and their

1684
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:01,429
parents don't even know so you know that

1685
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:03,890
that's a perfect example like a you know

1686
01:23:10,060 --> 01:23:07,210
a young boy having this obsession and

1687
01:23:11,950 --> 01:23:10,070
all these friends and they you know it's

1688
01:23:14,620 --> 01:23:11,960
almost like a little secret society

1689
01:23:16,510 --> 01:23:14,630
where we'll just keep it to us and don't

1690
01:23:19,169 --> 01:23:16,520
tell anyone else you know it was it did

1691
01:23:22,570 --> 01:23:19,179
have kind of like a creepy vibe to it

1692
01:23:24,899 --> 01:23:22,580
yeah well and to me this is really

1693
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:24,909
fascinating because you know the the

1694
01:23:30,790 --> 01:23:28,370
original the original mean for

1695
01:23:32,919 --> 01:23:30,800
Slenderman was that this was a thing

1696
01:23:38,020 --> 01:23:32,929
that you know waited in the woods and

1697
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:38,030
preyed on children and yet here the you

1698
01:23:43,899 --> 01:23:41,690
know they its its prey is actually I

1699
01:23:44,979 --> 01:23:43,909
mean I guess it's like the Pied Piper of

1700
01:23:49,530 --> 01:23:44,989
Hamelin you know they're skipping

1701
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:51,399
somebody actually mentioned this term

1702
01:23:55,990 --> 01:23:53,330
you know the idea of like the parallels

1703
01:23:57,899 --> 01:23:56,000
we think like Stockholm Syndrome you

1704
01:24:01,479 --> 01:23:57,909
know where somebody gets kidnapped and

1705
01:24:04,689 --> 01:24:01,489
you then they start to bond and and

1706
01:24:07,959 --> 01:24:04,699
relate to the to the to the cat to the

1707
01:24:11,649 --> 01:24:07,969
person who kidnapped them and you know

1708
01:24:13,780 --> 01:24:11,659
and that does happen you know so it

1709
01:24:15,729 --> 01:24:13,790
could be something along those lines you

1710
01:24:19,330 --> 01:24:15,739
know so something along like sort of

1711
01:24:23,620 --> 01:24:19,340
Stockholm Syndrome so now have you run

1712
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:23,630
across any cases where now I mean I know

1713
01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:26,290
that you know the the two girls were

1714
01:24:32,490 --> 01:24:29,530
concen they're friends you know friend

1715
01:24:36,150 --> 01:24:32,500
to a piece of Slenderman I mean have you

1716
01:24:39,290 --> 01:24:36,160
run across any cases where people have

1717
01:24:41,070 --> 01:24:39,300
said that they have actually

1718
01:24:43,470 --> 01:24:41,080
communicated with some of the man that a

1719
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:43,480
you know that he's talked to them and

1720
01:24:50,790 --> 01:24:48,090
and and actually told them to do things

1721
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:50,800
in the sense of literally talking to

1722
01:24:57,510 --> 01:24:54,010
them no there are a few cases where

1723
01:24:58,740 --> 01:24:57,520
people had seen the Slender Man in you

1724
01:25:02,310 --> 01:24:58,750
know sort of like a sleep paralysis

1725
01:25:04,770 --> 01:25:02,320
state and they suddenly got like

1726
01:25:07,530 --> 01:25:04,780
thoughts and ideas in their minds which

1727
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:07,540
they felt were coming from a Slenderman

1728
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:11,530
and in most of those cases it was sort

1729
01:25:16,710 --> 01:25:14,530
of you know the Slenderman wanting to be

1730
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:16,720
their friend that kind of thing you know

1731
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:18,930
which is again sort of very sinister

1732
01:25:25,350 --> 01:25:21,250
creepy aspects of the story but not

1733
01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:25,360
where the only case I've got where there

1734
01:25:30,480 --> 01:25:28,450
was like a voice was that one day the

1735
01:25:33,090 --> 01:25:30,490
flight attendant story which we're but

1736
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:33,100
that came through the laptop you know

1737
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:36,370
that wasn't through you know by

1738
01:25:42,450 --> 01:25:40,210
literally hearing it but a lot of these

1739
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:42,460
cases do occur you know when the witness

1740
01:25:47,730 --> 01:25:45,010
is in an altered state like like I said

1741
01:25:49,620 --> 01:25:47,740
like sleep paralysis or you know

1742
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:49,630
something along those lines so it's

1743
01:25:57,330 --> 01:25:53,050
almost as if you know the the medium in

1744
01:25:59,730 --> 01:25:57,340
terms of communication usually does take

1745
01:26:01,770 --> 01:25:59,740
place you know not in a regular

1746
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:01,780
situation for the most part it's always

1747
01:26:07,770 --> 01:26:04,570
in you know a an altered state or

1748
01:26:12,330 --> 01:26:07,780
something like that it makes me makes me

1749
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:12,340
think the the the woman who saw the

1750
01:26:15,780 --> 01:26:14,410
figure on her laptop and actually heard

1751
01:26:18,090 --> 01:26:15,790
the voice she said that she was

1752
01:26:22,290 --> 01:26:18,100
researching she actually had a room that

1753
01:26:23,910 --> 01:26:22,300
she had put up pictures of Slenderman it

1754
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:23,920
had almost become an obsession it makes

1755
01:26:34,230 --> 01:26:29,050
me think back to Albert K bender who had

1756
01:26:37,590 --> 01:26:34,240
his his room with all kinds of you know

1757
01:26:39,250 --> 01:26:37,600
pictures of movie monsters and and and

1758
01:26:43,030 --> 01:26:39,260
things like that

1759
01:26:45,460 --> 01:26:43,040
and then his experience with the the men

1760
01:26:49,660 --> 01:26:45,470
in black which I know that you know you

1761
01:26:52,900 --> 01:26:49,670
have you brought up in in your book the

1762
01:26:54,460 --> 01:26:52,910
the similarities to a certain extent

1763
01:26:59,650 --> 01:26:54,470
between the men and black and the

1764
01:27:01,750 --> 01:26:59,660
Slenderman yeah again goes back to that

1765
01:27:05,830 --> 01:27:01,760
angle of be careful what you wish for

1766
01:27:08,050 --> 01:27:05,840
you know I think when when people obsess

1767
01:27:09,790 --> 01:27:08,060
on you know you can take it the

1768
01:27:11,890 --> 01:27:09,800
paranormal out of the equation if people

1769
01:27:14,440 --> 01:27:11,900
obsess on anything it's never really a

1770
01:27:17,620 --> 01:27:14,450
good thing you know because it affects

1771
01:27:20,860 --> 01:27:17,630
the rest of your life and in your free

1772
01:27:22,740 --> 01:27:20,870
time and whatever so you know and I'm

1773
01:27:25,780 --> 01:27:22,750
but when it's something that's really

1774
01:27:28,330 --> 01:27:25,790
perceived as dangerous and supernatural

1775
01:27:30,460 --> 01:27:28,340
and hostile and that's what you're

1776
01:27:31,930 --> 01:27:30,470
obsessing on then it can get even worse

1777
01:27:33,580 --> 01:27:31,940
and I think that's probably what also

1778
01:27:35,620 --> 01:27:33,590
like you said happened with album Andy

1779
01:27:38,770 --> 01:27:35,630
you know he created this supernatural

1780
01:27:40,870 --> 01:27:38,780
alter in his attic in Bridgetown

1781
01:27:45,490 --> 01:27:40,880
Connecticut in the early 50s and

1782
01:27:47,560 --> 01:27:45,500
suddenly these strange pale faced men in

1783
01:27:51,250 --> 01:27:47,570
black leisurely condiments he realized

1784
01:27:52,390 --> 01:27:51,260
when he was kind of semi awake and you

1785
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:52,400
know and they said they're kind of

1786
01:27:57,850 --> 01:27:55,370
intruded on his mind almost so I think

1787
01:28:01,120 --> 01:27:57,860
you know you could make an argument in

1788
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:01,130
some cases all of these things or many

1789
01:28:07,810 --> 01:28:03,410
of them are kind of interconnected in

1790
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:07,820
some sometimes in more realistic ways of

1791
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:09,530
this kind of a vague way but there is

1792
01:28:14,650 --> 01:28:11,810
that sort of angle you know that the men

1793
01:28:17,229 --> 01:28:14,660
in black the shadow people the hat man

1794
01:28:19,690 --> 01:28:17,239
the slender man they've all got the

1795
01:28:22,540 --> 01:28:19,700
black suit you know they're all on a

1796
01:28:25,420 --> 01:28:22,550
pale and they and they prey on us you

1797
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:25,430
know well there's you know the the

1798
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:27,170
black-eyed children-- as well I mean

1799
01:28:32,530 --> 01:28:30,050
even though they're not you know tall

1800
01:28:34,420 --> 01:28:32,540
and and faces like the Slender Man you

1801
01:28:40,140 --> 01:28:34,430
know they seem to kind of fit within

1802
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:40,150
that that hierarchy of creepy you know

1803
01:28:44,590 --> 01:28:41,530
creatures

1804
01:28:47,410 --> 01:28:44,600
well I do sometimes wonder if you know

1805
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:47,420
because there's a greater level of black

1806
01:28:50,650 --> 01:28:49,610
eyed kid reporter day I sometimes wonder

1807
01:28:52,870 --> 01:28:50,660
you know if there was an original

1808
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:52,880
phenomenon which is still around

1809
01:28:58,930 --> 01:28:55,040
but also could there actually be a

1810
01:29:00,850 --> 01:28:58,940
thought-form version of the black eye

1811
01:29:03,610 --> 01:29:00,860
kids as well because you know it's not

1812
01:29:07,540 --> 01:29:03,620
quite attained the following as the

1813
01:29:10,149 --> 01:29:07,550
Slender Man has but certainly you know

1814
01:29:12,370 --> 01:29:10,159
it is a does have a big following so

1815
01:29:16,450 --> 01:29:12,380
maybe you've got to cross over there to

1816
01:29:19,629 --> 01:29:16,460
possibly it is interesting how the

1817
01:29:22,689 --> 01:29:19,639
Slenderman has has taken off so to speak

1818
01:29:24,310 --> 01:29:22,699
has has gained that that popularity I

1819
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:24,320
mean I'm surprised that there hasn't

1820
01:29:30,910 --> 01:29:27,290
been a you know like an Adult Swim

1821
01:29:35,229 --> 01:29:30,920
cartoon you know produced about Wonder

1822
01:29:37,990 --> 01:29:35,239
Man well you know the following is

1823
01:29:40,930 --> 01:29:38,000
pretty much needs and teenagers it's not

1824
01:29:43,780 --> 01:29:40,940
you know it's not something that for the

1825
01:29:46,899 --> 01:29:43,790
most part you know attracts a lot of

1826
01:29:49,570 --> 01:29:46,909
adults I mean from my perspective you

1827
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:49,580
know I wrote the book because I found a

1828
01:29:55,860 --> 01:29:52,250
whole the phenomenon fascinating but I

1829
01:29:59,439 --> 01:29:55,870
don't find the issue of the Slender Man

1830
01:30:01,360 --> 01:29:59,449
fascinating to where I I want to get him

1831
01:30:03,729 --> 01:30:01,370
involved you know with chat rooms and

1832
01:30:05,530 --> 01:30:03,739
forums and you know create my own

1833
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:05,540
pictures I've no interest in doing

1834
01:30:10,300 --> 01:30:07,610
anything like that my only interest in

1835
01:30:12,790 --> 01:30:10,310
it is from the perspective of the

1836
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:12,800
phenomenon and how its developed and how

1837
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:14,690
it affects people which is very

1838
01:30:18,370 --> 01:30:16,730
different to the angle that the kids are

1839
01:30:22,120 --> 01:30:18,380
taking you know they they're just

1840
01:30:25,240 --> 01:30:22,130
excited by this character that they you

1841
01:30:27,390 --> 01:30:25,250
know that they're obsessing with so so

1842
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:27,400
in other words it really is something

1843
01:30:33,970 --> 01:30:31,010
primarily just for kids and adults you

1844
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:33,980
know excuse me kids and teenagers mm-hmm

1845
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:36,290
which you know which way it makes me

1846
01:30:42,010 --> 01:30:40,250
think you know that possibly these you

1847
01:30:45,820 --> 01:30:42,020
know these kids are identifying you know

1848
01:30:48,430 --> 01:30:45,830
with with this thing because I don't

1849
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:48,440
know maybe it represents you know like

1850
01:30:56,350 --> 01:30:53,210
that that deep dark primal thing that's

1851
01:30:58,270 --> 01:30:56,360
within all of us and is especially close

1852
01:30:59,919 --> 01:30:58,280
to the surface you know when you're a

1853
01:31:01,479 --> 01:30:59,929
teenager because you know you know is

1854
01:31:03,580 --> 01:31:01,489
you're an adult you learn to kind of

1855
01:31:05,100 --> 01:31:03,590
suppress that kind of stuff but when

1856
01:31:07,169 --> 01:31:05,110
you're you know when you're a kid

1857
01:31:11,189 --> 01:31:07,179
you know that raids a lot of times it's

1858
01:31:13,109 --> 01:31:11,199
just so close to the surface yeah and I

1859
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:13,119
think you know there is that's why I

1860
01:31:16,379 --> 01:31:14,650
said there could be several different

1861
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:16,389
explanations I mean like with the the

1862
01:31:23,250 --> 01:31:18,850
attack that the girls did on their

1863
01:31:25,169 --> 01:31:23,260
former friend in Waukesha Wisconsin you

1864
01:31:27,540 --> 01:31:25,179
know you have people who take the view

1865
01:31:28,080 --> 01:31:27,550
that there's a like a paranormal aspect

1866
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:28,090
to it

1867
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:30,250
but then you've got you know another

1868
01:31:35,550 --> 01:31:33,010
angle where people are sure that they

1869
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:35,560
just they became so obsessed and they

1870
01:31:40,020 --> 01:31:38,050
blurred the lines between reality and

1871
01:31:43,229 --> 01:31:40,030
fiction to the way they couldn't

1872
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:43,239
distinguish between the two and then the

1873
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:46,690
worst scenario happened so again you

1874
01:31:51,180 --> 01:31:48,489
know you there are different arguments

1875
01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:51,190
and points of view as to which view is

1876
01:31:58,200 --> 01:31:55,210
valid you know and and again a lot of it

1877
01:32:01,050 --> 01:31:58,210
just purely just you know by definition

1878
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:01,060
II you know it's we dictate it to come

1879
01:32:07,260 --> 01:32:04,449
one theory or another or several

1880
01:32:09,209 --> 01:32:07,270
theories and and that's what's happened

1881
01:32:13,109 --> 01:32:09,219
you know there's radically different

1882
01:32:14,970 --> 01:32:13,119
views on what's going on all right

1883
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:14,980
gentlemen well we're getting close to

1884
01:32:18,750 --> 01:32:16,810
the end of the program so I want to give

1885
01:32:22,140 --> 01:32:18,760
you both a chance to let our audience

1886
01:32:26,399 --> 01:32:22,150
know where they can find out more about

1887
01:32:28,919 --> 01:32:26,409
you Neil again what is the what's the

1888
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:28,929
name of use of your museum where is it

1889
01:32:37,229 --> 01:32:32,290
located and you know what what hours are

1890
01:32:39,570 --> 01:32:37,239
you open okay Paranormal Research Center

1891
01:32:42,540 --> 01:32:39,580
in Hinkley and Lester share and you can

1892
01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:42,550
find us on Facebook and we are open

1893
01:32:49,020 --> 01:32:45,330
Friday between 3:00 and 6:00 Saturday

1894
01:32:52,169 --> 01:32:49,030
tential 4 and Sunday 1:00 till 4:00 and

1895
01:32:54,810 --> 01:32:52,179
we also invite paranormal groups to come

1896
01:32:57,680 --> 01:32:54,820
in and investigate in the evenings and

1897
01:33:00,330 --> 01:32:57,690
we do lot sort of different life feeds

1898
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:00,340
and you know when do when do you usually

1899
01:33:06,209 --> 01:33:04,090
usually do your live feeds and you know

1900
01:33:08,399 --> 01:33:06,219
when do you do you make like an

1901
01:33:09,810 --> 01:33:08,409
announcement you know a couple days on

1902
01:33:12,750 --> 01:33:09,820
your Facebook account and one you're

1903
01:33:15,300 --> 01:33:12,760
going to do a and we do a Monday night

1904
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:15,310
live feed between 8:00 and 9:00 that's

1905
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:17,050
when we just put an item on the table

1906
01:33:20,700 --> 01:33:18,850
and viewers

1907
01:33:24,150 --> 01:33:20,710
just tell us what the sense or feel from

1908
01:33:26,340 --> 01:33:24,160
the item but we also do on location live

1909
01:33:28,110 --> 01:33:26,350
feeds all the information is on the

1910
01:33:30,780 --> 01:33:28,120
Facebook so that's the best place to

1911
01:33:32,910 --> 01:33:30,790
find it really mm-hmm and if somebody

1912
01:33:36,090 --> 01:33:32,920
has an item of their own that they'd

1913
01:33:37,950 --> 01:33:36,100
like to donate to you they do do they

1914
01:33:40,590 --> 01:33:37,960
get ahold of you on Facebook or you know

1915
01:33:42,300 --> 01:33:40,600
run you up on the phone or what yeah

1916
01:33:45,180 --> 01:33:42,310
just get me on Facebook that's the

1917
01:33:47,900 --> 01:33:45,190
easiest way all right

1918
01:33:51,420 --> 01:33:47,910
and and Nick what about yourself your

1919
01:33:53,850 --> 01:33:51,430
your recent book is the the Slenderman

1920
01:33:55,110 --> 01:33:53,860
we find it here the Slenderman mysteries

1921
01:33:58,380 --> 01:33:55,120
but you also have a new one out called

1922
01:34:01,020 --> 01:33:58,390
control MKULTRA chemtrails we're working

1923
01:34:03,810 --> 01:34:01,030
people were buying these books well all

1924
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:03,820
my books are available on Amazon and

1925
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:06,010
about two-thirds of them you can get off

1926
01:34:10,050 --> 01:34:08,530
the shelves in Barnes & Noble and you

1927
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:10,060
dis learned about mysteries book you can

1928
01:34:16,140 --> 01:34:12,970
get off from Barnes & Noble as well and

1929
01:34:19,050 --> 01:34:16,150
people can reach me at my blog which is

1930
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:19,060
called world of whatever and it's the

1931
01:34:25,500 --> 01:34:22,090
address is Nick Redfern forty and dot

1932
01:34:28,890 --> 01:34:25,510
blog spot.com or find me at Twitter Nick

1933
01:34:32,460 --> 01:34:28,900
Redfern UFO or Sami Neil at Facebook as

1934
01:34:35,580 --> 01:34:32,470
well alright and and I know this is a

1935
01:34:40,830 --> 01:34:35,590
stupid question Nick but many new books

1936
01:34:43,980 --> 01:34:40,840
you're working on right now which comes

1937
01:34:48,900 --> 01:34:43,990
out next month it's actually the nicest

1938
01:34:51,630 --> 01:34:48,910
man in black book and Wow so that it's

1939
01:34:53,870 --> 01:34:51,640
actually put out by my agents company

1940
01:34:56,220 --> 01:34:53,880
Lisa Hagen books and that'll be out

1941
01:34:57,900 --> 01:34:56,230
roundabout probably late April something

1942
01:34:59,850 --> 01:34:57,910
like that all right

1943
01:35:02,250 --> 01:34:59,860
well gentlemen thank you very much we

1944
01:35:04,440 --> 01:35:02,260
have to wrap up the show for tonight so

1945
01:35:06,450 --> 01:35:04,450
I appreciate you both being on with us

1946
01:35:08,340 --> 01:35:06,460
on exploring the bizarre and I want to

1947
01:35:10,830 --> 01:35:08,350
thank our audience for listening in as

1948
01:35:12,870 --> 01:35:10,840
well so good night from myself and Tim

1949
01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:12,880
Beckley and be sure to tune in again

1950
01:35:17,980 --> 01:35:16,510
this time next week for more exploring

1951
01:35:22,879 --> 01:35:17,990
the desire

1952
01:35:29,700 --> 01:35:25,709
you've been listening to exploring the

1953
01:35:32,970 --> 01:35:29,710
bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley aunty

1954
01:35:35,819 --> 01:35:32,980
Swartz they're taking back the night by

1955
01:35:38,399 --> 01:35:35,829
jetting non-stop across the cosmos in

1956
01:35:42,209 --> 01:35:38,409
search of the truly bizarre and totally

1957
01:35:44,750 --> 01:35:42,219
unexplained with you as their combined

1958
01:35:49,200 --> 01:35:44,760
Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m. Pacific

1959
01:35:52,860 --> 01:35:49,210
10:00 p.m. Eastern on the K cor digital

1960
01:35:55,979 --> 01:35:52,870
radio for more information on exploring

1961
01:35:59,189 --> 01:35:55,989
the bazaar and hosts Timothy Beckley and

1962
01:36:02,280 --> 01:35:59,199
Tim Swartz check out there k cor digital

1963
01:36:08,490 --> 01:36:02,290
radio network follow their YouTube

1964
01:36:18,910 --> 01:36:08,500
channel @m r UFO 1100 exploring the